A Complete Transcript From Chinese Premier's Meeting The Washington Post
溫家寶總理接受《華盛頓郵報(bào)》總編唐尼采訪
Nov. 21， 2003
Interview with Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao on Nov. 21， 2003 by Executive Editor Leonard Downie Jr.， Assistant Managing Editor for Foreign News Philip Bennett， and Washington Post correspondents John Pomfret， Philip P. Pan and Peter S. Goodman.
新華社北京十一月二十三日電 國(guó)務(wù)院總理溫家寶二十一日在中南海紫光閣接受了美國(guó)《華盛頓郵報(bào)》總編唐尼的采訪。
Premier Wen：
I know this is your first time in China， so let me start by extending my warmest welcome to you and your colleagues. I can quote one fitting ancient Chinese poem to describe our meeting： “Good friends highly value their words. They travel a thousand li to keep their promise for a gathering.” In a few days time I will visit your great country. So first of all I wish to convey through The Washington Post my cordial greetings and best wishes to the great American people.
I remember only a couple of days after the September 11 incident I was here receiving participants during an international financial conference in Beijing. And among the delegates to the meeting there was one lady expert from the United States. I noticed that she looked very sad and lonely， so I extended my hand to her and expressed my sympathy， and I also asked her to convey my solicitude to the American people.
And this reminds me of the fact that China and the United States， two great nations， have had exchanges for over 200 years and across three centuries. And I remember so well so many touching stories about the profound friendship and good cooperation between the two peoples. In the 1860s， Chinese workers， by the tens of thousands， went to the U.S. to build the trans-continental railroad that links the east and west coast. The Chinese workers defied starvation and cold. Many other workers could not endure the harsh conditions. Only the Chinese workers stuck it out to the very end. Many， many Chinese workers lost their lives in the process of construction and there were too many to count. However， it was recorded in history that the last track was laid by four Chinese workers. Hence， in 1991， the state of Illinois sent a delegation to Shanghai solely for the purpose of building a monument with 3000 railway spikes and they said that the contribution of Chinese workers was essential in linking the east and west coasts and promoting national unity. I also remember very well that from May 1942 to September 1945 a group of young American pilots from the famous Flying Tiger squadron flew the Hump Route to support China during the war against fascism. The Hump Route was famous for its danger and in those years more than 500 planes crashed， claiming the lives of more than 1，500 Chinese and American pilots. That route was also known as the aluminum trail for the wreckage of crashed planes glittering in the sunlight. However， that route is a testimony to the cooperation between the Chinese and the Americans. The reason why I recall these touching stories is because I hope our interview will start in a good atmosphere of mutual respect and friendship.
Q： One of the current issues for joint Chinese and American action is the current situation in Taiwan. What would you like the President of the United States to do to help China deal with the current situation in Taiwan？
A： The recent remarks and activities by the leaders of the Taiwan authorities， especially their deliberate provocations on the referendum issue and writing a constitution， show clearly not only their obstinate clinging to national splittism but also their stepped up efforts at Taiwan independence.
You put the question of Taiwan to me. Actually， I have also been asking questions： What are the Taiwan authorities driving at with all that they are doing and where are they taking Taiwan？ Do they still respect the cherished aspirations of the Taiwan compatriots for peace， stability and development？ Do they really want to maintain peace and stability in the Taiwan Straits or are they bent on disrupting peace and stability in the Taiwan Straits？ I believe that these questions are of concern to the Chinese people and of concern to our Taiwan compatriots， and they are also of concern to the United States and the international community at large.
Our policy toward Taiwan is a clear-cut one. It is peaceful reunification and “one country， two systems.” We will not give up our efforts for a peaceful settlement of the question of Taiwan because a peaceful settlement is in the fundamental interests of all Chinese people， our Taiwan compatriots included. But we will not sit by and do nothing faced with provocative activities aimed at splitting the motherland. China's sovereignty and territorial integrity brook no division and the position of the Chinese government on upholding the one-China principle is rock firm and defies all challenges. I hope the U.S. government will recognize the gravity and danger of the provocative remarks and actions taken by the leader of the Taiwan authorities that would undermine the prospects for peaceful reunification and that the U.S. side would not send any wrong signals to the Taiwan authorities. And we hope that the U.S. side would take practical measures that are conducive to the maintenance of peace and stability in the Taiwan Straits.
Q： Are there specific measures that you would like the United States to take？ Do you have specific measures in mind？
The Taiwan question is the most important and sensitive issue in the China-U.S. relationship. So on the question of Taiwan， the U.S. side must be very straightforward in adhering to the principles of the three Sino-U.S. joint communiques and in opposing Taiwan independence. The U.S. side must be crystal clear in opposing the use of a referendum or writing a constitution or all other tactics used by the leader of Taiwan authorities to pursue his separatist agenda. And the U.S. side must adhere to the principle of the Aug. 17 communique and refrain from upgrading arms sales to Taiwan both in quantity and quality. This will fundamentally help maintain peace and stability in the Taiwan Straits. It will also be conducive to the advancement of the process of the peaceful reunification of China. It will also be fundamentally helpful to the maintenance of world peace and stability.
Q： If the leadership of Taiwan continues to proceed along the road it is on， despite what you say and despite what the Americans might say， what measures is China prepared to take？
A： That is the most crucial question. I can clearly say this， Mr. Executive Editor， Taiwan is China's sacred territory and is an inalienable part of Chinese territory. No Chinese government will abandon the position of peaceful reunification on this question. We completely understand the desire of the Taiwan compatriots for democracy， and we also understand their hopes for a peaceful environment. However， when the leadership of the Taiwan authorities wants to separate Taiwan from Chinese territory， no Chinese will agree.
The Chinese people will pay any price to safeguard the unity of the motherland.
I assume that you are familiar with the words of President Lincoln， who once said， “a house divided against itself will not stand.” So the U.S. federal government would never allow any of its states to secede from the United States. It is our hope that the situation would not lead to that point. Therefore， we still won抰 give up our efforts for peace.
Q： Another issue in U.S.-Chinese relations is trade. China is a very large trading partner of the United States. Recently， the Bush administration announced its intention to restrict some exports of Chinese textiles. Do you believe it will be necessary for China to take retaliatory action？
A： First， I want to say that the problems that crop up in our bilateral trade and economic cooperation must be handled properly. These questions must be handled properly because the expansion of trade and the development of economic cooperation between us serve the fundamental interests of the Chinese and American peoples. We all may need to recall that in 1972 when the door was open to our relationship 30 years ago， our trade was practically nil. At the time Dr. [Henry] Kissinger visited China， each visiting American to China was only allowed to carry $100 to spend in the Chinese economy. We only started to have statistics about our trade in 1979， and in that year the trade volume was less than $2.5 billion. Now， after 25 years our joint cooperation and trade has developed significantly and trade volume has already reached $100 billion —— that's a 40-fold increase. So you can see the development of such a trade relationship has served the interests of both peoples.
I am aware of the U.S. concern over the huge trade imbalance. I would like to give you a few explanations. First， such a trade imbalance is to a great extent structural and a result of shifting commercial relations. I will give you one example. While the trade deficit that exists between China and the U.S. is going up， China's trade deficit in our trade with Asian countries is also going up at the same time. In the first 10 months of this year， China's exports grew by 32 percent， however our imports grew by 40 percent.
Second， if you look at our export structure， actually Sino-foreign joint ventures or wholly foreign-owned enterprises contribute to 65 percent of our total exports and more than half of our exports involve the processing of imported material or parts， and the majority of profits actually go to the foreign investors. These enterprises include the U.S.-invested enterprises in China， such as Motorola and Wal-Mart.
Third， what we sell to the U.S. market are the products that U.S. consumers need， and Chinese products are affordable but of very good quality. So our exports actually help stabilize the price in the U.S. markets and also satisfy the needs of U.S. consumers.
Fourth， it is not China's aim to seek long-term and excessive trade surpluses. Our aim in trade policy is to have a basic balance between imports and exports. We are willing to open up our markets to buy more from the United States and other countries， especially to purchase high-tech products.
Not so long ago， we sent a few purchasing missions to the United States and they signed contracts worth billions of U.S. dollars. That demonstrates our sincerity. At the same time， we hope that the United States would grant market economy status to China and lift restrictions on China and open up its market.
And we also hope you will lift restrictions on exports to China. I can give you an example. A few years ago， China placed an order for a Loral satellite and we paid a deposit of more than $150 million. However， someone in the U.S. did not want to see a Chinese rocket being used to launch the Loral satellite. Hence， the contract was not implemented and the $150 million deposit has not been refunded.
In reality， these restrictions will not hinder China's development. In the past few years， China has continuously sent satellites successfully into orbit and we also have our space program. For instance， some digital machine tools， some computers —— with respect to these projects， China already has very strong R&D capabilities and in certain areas were are actually at the forefront. Nevertheless， the United States still places these products on the list of restricted items.
Q： Given everything you抳e told me so far， were you surprised then by the action on textiles and is there anything China needs to do in response？
A： I抦 not just surprised， I抦 shocked and the Chinese people have been surprised and shocked. This unilateral restrictive action， occurring just at the time when the Chinese people were expressing their sincerity and involving textile products only worth $400-500 million and without any prior discussion with the Chinese government， seriously wounded the feelings of the Chinese people. I wonder if you have taken note of by the response by the international community and the reaction of experts in the field. Such a decision has hurt the US market. I want to invoke another Chinese saying： We should not be afraid of the dark clouds blocking our view because we are already at a high elevation. With respect to our joint cooperation in trade and in cooperation in other areas， it is important to adopt a strategic perspective like the view you would have when you are already on top of Mount Tai. Then all other mountains would be dwarfed.
We still hope between the China and the U.S. we can establish a mechanism for regular discussion and coordination and cooperation to tackle the problems that might come up. This will be one of the proposals I will bring to the United States because I think such a mechanism would play a positive role in solving problems. The establishment of such a mechanism will provide guarantees for equal consultations as a way to handle our disputes. Arbitrarily imposing sanctions or restrictions will not help solve the problem. On the contrary， it will hurt the interests of both sides.
Q： What is your thinking about the suggestion that changing the way in which the Chinese currency is valued would make a contribution to the trade relations between the two countries？
A： We first began reforming our exchange rate regime in 1994. It was decided at that time that we would adopt a market-based， single， regulated floating exchange rate regime. Some people claim the value of the RENMINBI is fixed and has not changed. This does not square with the facts. I think it would be more accurate to say that the band of fluctuation of the RENMINBI is quite narrow. Since 1994， the RENMINBI has appreciated in real terms by 18.5 percent against the U.S. dollar and by 39.4 percent against the Euro. In 1997， during the Asian financial crisis， we withstood pressure for RENMINBI devaluation and since then， the band of fluctuation of the value of the RENMINBI has been quite narrow.
The exchange rate of the currency a country should be set in accordance to its national conditions and the state of its economic and financial sector. There is no denying we still face very daunting tasks in financial and banking reform. We have already allowed our currency to be freely convertible under current account in 1996， and it will take a very long period of time and arduous efforts before we can achieve the objective of a freely convertible currency under the capital account. We are definitely going to accelerate reform of the financial and banking sector and while we do so we抣l explore how to form a rational mechanism in which the value of the RENMINBI will fluctuate on the basis of market conditions.
I don抰 think the exchange rate of the RENMINBI is an important contributor to the trade imbalance between China and the U.S. If there is any important contributor to the trade imbalance， I think it is the abundant supply of competitive labor in China's market.
Q： China and the United States are working closely together to try to assure that the Korean peninsula remains free of nuclear weapons. Do you believe that North Korea currently possesses nuclear weapons？
A： I am unable to give you an answer to that question because I truly don抰 know. But I can clearly tell you our attitude. We hope the Korean peninsula will be free of nuclear weapons， and we hope that peace and stability will be maintained on the Korean peninsula.
Q： President Bush has assured the North Koreans that the United States does not intend to attack. Are there other specific steps that you believe the United States should be taking to try to bring a resolution， to create an agreement with North Korea？
A： You must have also noticed that there has been some progress in the process of dialogue on the nuclear issue. The DPRK has stated that it does not seek to possess nuclear weapons and that denuclearization is its ultimate goal. And recently， it has also said that under the prerequisite that its security concerns are met and the United States abandons its hostile policy toward the DPRK， the DPRK is prepared to give up its substantive plan to develop a nuclear program. The Bush administration has repeatedly said that the United States has no intention to invade or change the regime of the DPRK， and that it wants to resolve the nuclear issue through diplomatic means， through peaceful negotiations. So in my view， the positions of two sides are now closer than before.
I think the best way is to continue with the Beijing six-party talks so that all parties concerned can sit together to have discussions on the basis of mutual respect， equality and mutual trust， and through such consultations they can， in the end， work out a solution that is acceptable to all parties concerned and that is helpful for the peaceful resolution of the nuclear issue.
Q： Another subject in discussions between the United States and China on occasion is Tibet. The Dalai Lama has declared that he is not seeking independence for Tibet. And I believe former President Jiang Zemin had said on one occasion that he was willing to meet with the Dalai Lama to discuss the situation. Do you foresee face-to-face meetings with the Dalai Lama and representatives of China？
A： Regrettably， the Dalai Lama has not genuinely given up his position of Tibet independence and has not given up the separatist activities aimed at splitting the motherland. He also has not recognized that Taiwan is an inalienable part of Chinese territory.
We have taken note of the recent remarks by the Dalai Lama but we still need to watch very carefully what he really does. So long as he genuinely abandons his position on seeking Tibetan independence and publicly recognizes that Tibet and Taiwan are inalienable parts of Chinese territory， then contacts between him and the central government can resume and we can resume the discussions with him. The door to communication between the central government and the Dalai Lama is wide open.
Q： China's economic performance has been very rapid in recent years， creating a very strong Chinese economy， and great economic growth in a short period of time. Do you also believe political reform should be accelerated to keep pace with economic reform？
A： China embarked on the road to reform and opening up in 1978. Our reform is a comprehensive one which includes both economic and political restructuring. Precisely as Mr. Deng Xiaoping pointed out， without political reform， economic reform will not be successful. In essence political restructuring in China aims at integrating the leadership of the Chinese Communist Party， the people's role as masters of their own affairs and rule of law in the conduct of public affairs.
At present， it is particularly important to do a good job on the following. First of all， we should develop democracy to safeguard people's democratic rights and to respect and protect their human rights. Secondly， we should improve on the legal system through better legislation， better administration according to law， and greater judicial reform. Thirdly， we should run the country according to law， making our socialist democracy more institutionalized， standardized and proceduralized， and in this way we can make sure that it will not change because of changes in the leadership and changes in the views and focus of attention of leaders. Fourth， we must strengthen supervision， and we should make sure that the government is placed under the supervision of the people. We have to develop democracy and strengthen supervision. Only in this way can we make sure the government will not relent in its efforts， and this would help avoid a situation whereby the government would be a failure.
China is a big country with 1.3 billion people. So to press ahead with political reform， it has to be done in an orderly fashion and in a well-organized manner. Now there exist many misunderstandings. I know this is your first time in China. I don抰 know what you have seen. For instance， with regard to freedom of religious belief， freedom of religious belief is actually written into China's constitution. China currently has over 100 million religious followers. China has over 100，000 religious sites. Let me put in another way. Since the beginning of reform and opening up， one religious site has been either newly built or restored every three days. You may just take a walk around the Zhongnanhai compound， and you can see many， many religious sites. For instance， to the south of Zhongnanhai， there's the Chongwenmen Protestant church. To the east of Zhongnanhai， there's the Wangfujing Catholic church. Nearest to Zhongnanhai is the famous Xiciku church. To the north of Zhongnanhai， there's the Yonghe Buddhist monastery. To the west of Zhongnanhai is the Baiyun Taoist temple. You may visit these religious sites. I抦 sure when you are there， you will see not just people practicing their religious faith. At the same time， these religious believers are also law-abiding citizens. Also， to the southwest of Zhongnanhai， there's Islam， the large Niujie mosque.
Over the past 5，000 years of Chinese history， China has been very tolerant toward the development of religion. Among the five major religions in China， only Taoism is an indigenous religious belief. The other four actually came from overseas. For instance， Buddhism came to China from India， Catholicism and Protestantism from the West， and Islam from the Middle East or West Asia.
Q： What steps do you anticipate will be next taken in political reforms？ For example， might direct elections of local governments be extended upward to the township level？
A： You must know quite a lot about Chinese elections. At the moment， we have introduced the practice of self-administration and direct elections in 680，000 villages. This is a great innovation， and it is also very good practice for Chinese farmers. We also introduced suffrage for the election of people's deputies at the level of townships， counties and urban cities without districts. Indirect elections are held for the leadership of the provinces， autonomous regions， municipalities with districts， as well as the central authorities. Why？ This is because China is such a huge country. It has a big population. It is very underdeveloped， and economic development is uneven between regions. So conditions are not ripe for direct elections at the higher levels. The first hindrance in my view is the inadequate education level of the population.
Q： Premier Wen， you mentioned uneven development during this period of great economic growth. Are you concerned about a gap growing in economic conditions between the more well off parts of China and the poorer parts of China， such as in the west？
A： I do have such concerns. Not too long ago， the Commerce Secretary， Mr. Evans， visited China， and he started his visit going to China's northwest. He came to see me and he was sitting right here where you are sitting. He took with him two photographs that were taken when he visited the countryside in China's northwest. From his visit， he learned that the countryside in China is still very backward. So I told him with this knowledge， the problems that he was about to discuss with me could be solved very easily.
I抳e personally been to 1，800 counties throughout the country. So I抦 in a position to say I抳e seen the worst poverty in China. So I know very well how uneven our development has been. Yes， it is true that in the coastal areas in the East， skyscrapers overwhelm you. However， in large areas of the countryside， people are still living in shabby houses with thatch roofs and still use oxen to till the land. Thirty million people are still below the poverty line.
So one important inspirational lesson we have learned from the struggle against the SARS epidemic is that we have to emphasize coordinated development. And this is what the new Chinese leadership has learned from the struggle against SARS.
Uneven development between the urban and rural areas， and imbalance between economic development and social progress —— this situation can be described with an analogy. It's like a human being who has one long leg and one short leg. If one leg is longer than the other， this person is bound to stumble and fall. And a country with one leg longer than the other will also stumble and fall.
We have worked out a strategy for the eastern part of the country to encourage them to continue with the big momentum of their development. And where conditions permit， they should take the lead in achieving modernization. This is because through their development， a lot of financial resources will be made available to support the development of China's center and west. At the same time， we抮e also implementing a strategy to develop China's western region. And very recently， we decided to implement a strategy to revitalize the old industrial bases in China's northeast. So with good interaction between the east and west， we hope to bring along development in the central region of the country. With all these efforts， we hope gradually we can bring about more coordinated development between the two different regions. But I want to remind you that this could be a very time-consuming process.
Q： Is this also the reason why you are changing the constitution to protect private property rights and giving farmers the right to buy and sell land use rights？
A： We have decided on an important policy and that is public ownership will be the mainstay and multiple forms of ownership will develop side by side. To sum up， we can use two unswervingly to describe this. We will unswervingly uphold the public ownership system and develop the public sector， and we will unswervingly encourage， support and guide the development of the non-public sector.
This basic economic system has been written into our constitution， and in the recently held third plenary session of the 16th Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party， the concept of property rights was introduced. It was made very clear at the session that we would formulate legislation protecting private property. Such a move was entirely based on China's actual conditions in the spirit of seeking truth from facts， because this will help accelerate China's economic development. It will also help ease the pressure from employment. It will also give greater scope to the creativity and enterprising spirit of the Chinese population and will in the end help us achieve the goal of common prosperity. At the moment， privately run enterprises employ a total of 80 million workers and they contribute to 23 percent of our GDP. In the countryside， we have the household contract management system. It has long since been stipulated that land operated by farmers can be transferred in a lawful and compensatory manner.
Q： Earlier you mentioned the financial sector. Do important changes need to be made there to provide more financing for the private sector and business？ And does the government need to take steps to deal with the loan problem at some of the big banks？
A： Financial reform is the most difficult and the most crucial part of our overall economic reforms. As is known to all， the financial sector in China has been plagued by many problems. The biggest problem is the fairly high proportion of nonperforming loans from banks. There exists significant risk. The problem is caused by defects in the system. So we have to accelerate the reform of the banking system. Our aim is to put in place a modern banking system whereby the commercial banks will be commercial banks in a true sense. That means they will be responsible for their own operation decisions and they will be held responsible for their profits and losses. On our part， we will help create conditions to introduce corporate governance to the banks through the share-holding system. Those that meet the conditions can go public or be listed.
You also touched upon an important point， that is to ensure there will be more financing in support of small and medium sized enterprises and also the privately run enterprises. I have to admit that not enough has been done in this field， even though the small and medium-sized enterprises play a very important role in creating job opportunities and in providing employment. So while we step up regulation and improve our capability to avoid financial risks， we should make sure that the banks would provide more financing and support of these small and medium-sized enterprises.
Q： If I may ask one question about the events of 1989 in Tiananmen. You went to visit the students there during that time. Have you concluded were they counterrevolutionaries or were they patriots？
A： In the last century， at the turn of the 1980s and 1990s， drastic changes took place in the Soviet Union and countries of Eastern Europe. In China， a political disturbance occurred. At that time， the party and government of China adopted resolute measures in a timely fashion to safeguard social stability and became more determined to press ahead with China's reform and opening up. Our development over the past years has proven that stability is of vital importance for China. As premier of this country， I think the most important issue for me is to ensure stability and development. This is because China has 1.3 billion people.
Q： You抳e talked about stability being an important concern of yours here. President Bush has in two recent major speeches， one in Washington and yesterday in London， has talked about the importance of freedom as a core American value， particularly in reference to the attacks by terrorists on American and British and other targets. Do you see the core values of America and China being different or similar， and how does that affect the future development of Chinese-American relations？
A： Let me ask you a question. In the past 25 years of reform and opening up， enormous changes have taken places in China's economic landscape. Have people from the outside ever seen the changes taking place in China's democracy and freedom？ At the moment， people can choose what kind of jobs they want to have， they can choose what kind of information they seek， they can choose where to visit. Twenty-five years ago， for a Chinese person to visit a foreign country or even to visit Hong Kong， part of our own country， it was very difficult or almost impossible. At the moment， every year， tens of millions of Chinese travelers visit places across the world. And in addition， as I said earlier， we now have freedom of religious belief.
Let me share with you how I feel about my duties. As premier of China， my responsibility is heavy， the job is demanding， and there is endless work to do. 1.3 billion is a very big number. So if we use multiplication， any small problem multiplied by 1.3 billion will end up being a very big problem. For a very big aggregate divided by 1.3 billion， it will come to a very tiny figure. This is something that is quite difficult for foreign visitors to understand and appreciate.
I remember that in the Declaration of Independence， Jefferson wrote that all men are created equal， that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights， that among these are life， liberty and the pursuit of happiness. He put life before anything else. So when we say that for the Chinese people's human rights， the right to life and development is most important， sometimes our friends in the Western countries find this difficult to understand. I think they only need to refer to the Declaration of Independence written by Thomas Jefferson. In 1776， in that Declaration of Independence， he already put the right to life before every other right. The U.S. has also witnessed the process of development of democracy if you look at the history， from the Declaration of Independence in the 18th century， the Civil War in 19th century， and to the Martin Luther King incident in the 20th century.
I was being very straightforward. If I can speak very honestly and in a straightforward manner， I would say the understanding of China by some Americans is not as good as the Chinese people's understanding of the United States.
Q： Speaking of that， you seem to have a very good understanding of the United States. Have you visited the United States before？
A： I have not made an official visit to the United States， but I抳e been to the United States during a stopover on my way to South American countries. I spent a few days in New York and in Los Angeles.
Q： So you know a lot from what you've been reading I imagine about the United States. Is there anything that made a particular impression on you in your reading about the United States？
A： My biggest hobby actually is reading. I don't know how to live without books. They're my best companion. Let me share with you a story. Once I had a meeting with the president of the Republic of Korea， Mr. Roh Moo-hyun， and he told me that in his inauguration speech， he quoted President Abraham Lincoln from one of his speeches in 1861. So after the meeting， I went back home and looked for the book about Abraham Lincoln on my bookshelf， and I found that paragraph. In the very same paragraph， I had already used red pencil to underline these lines.
He wrote， “The mystic cords of memory， stretching from every battlefield and patriot grave， to every living heart and hearthstone， all over this broad land， will yet swell the chorus of the Union， when touched again， as surely they will be， by the better angels of our nature.”
So my understanding is that Lincoln's approach to the Civil War had an impact， an influence on President Roh Moo-hyun on how he's going to address the problems between North and South Korea. President Roh wants to see reconciliation between the two.
I want to make one last remark. The United States is the most developed country in the world. China is the most populous developing country in the world. To develop friendship and cooperation between these two countries will not only bring benefits to our two peoples but will also be conducive to peace and stability in Asia and the world at large. In 1972， farsighted leaders on the two sides opened the door for exchanges between us， and put an end to 23 years of estrangement and no contact. That started the peaceful coexistence between us. Despite the many ups and downs we have experienced， our relationship has moved forward. So what have we learned from the past years of the history of our relationship？ I think at least we can draw three conclusions. First， cooperation will bring benefits to both nations， whereas confrontation will hurt both sides. Second， there exists a good basis of cooperation and common interests between China and the United States. Third， friendship and cooperation between China and the U.S. is not only conducive to peace and stability in the Asia Pacific region， it is also conducive to peace and stability throughout the world.
英文轉(zhuǎn)自《華盛頓郵報(bào)》
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溫家寶總理：
聽說(shuō)你是第一次到中國(guó)來(lái)，我對(duì)你和你的同事們表示熱烈歡迎。中國(guó)有一句古詩(shī)：“結(jié)交一言重，相期千里至?！痹龠^(guò)十幾天，我就要訪問你們偉大的國(guó)家。在這里，我首先通過(guò)貴報(bào)，對(duì)偉大的美國(guó)人民表示親切的問候和良好的祝愿。
記得在“九·一一”事件發(fā)生后的幾天，我會(huì)見到中國(guó)出席國(guó)際金融會(huì)議的外國(guó)代表，其中有一個(gè)美國(guó)的女專家，我看到她的神情表現(xiàn)出哀傷孤寂，我向她伸出手，表示慰問，同時(shí)也請(qǐng)她轉(zhuǎn)達(dá)對(duì)美國(guó)人民的問候。
我們兩個(gè)偉大的國(guó)家，交往的歷史已經(jīng)有二百年了，跨越了三個(gè)世紀(jì)。兩國(guó)人民友誼和合作的動(dòng)人事跡還歷歷在目。十九世紀(jì)六十年代，中國(guó)數(shù)以萬(wàn)計(jì)的華工參加了美國(guó)橫貫東西部大鐵路的修建工作。他們不顧嚴(yán)寒、饑餓和待遇菲薄的惡劣條件，當(dāng)別的建筑隊(duì)伍都撤下來(lái)的時(shí)候，只有中國(guó)這支隊(duì)伍堅(jiān)持到底。最后一根枕木是由四位華工鋪上的。無(wú)數(shù)人為這個(gè)工程獻(xiàn)出了生命。一九九一年伊利諾伊州曾經(jīng)專門派人到上海用三千個(gè)道釘做了個(gè)紀(jì)念碑。他們說(shuō)，中國(guó)筑路工人的貢獻(xiàn)就是溝通了美國(guó)東西部的大通道，并由此推動(dòng)了美國(guó)的統(tǒng)一，這是一個(gè)重要的因素。上個(gè)世紀(jì)，一九四二年五月到一九四五年的九月，美國(guó)派了年輕的飛行員組成“飛虎隊(duì)”，飛越的“駝峰”航線，支持中國(guó)的反法西斯戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)。那是世界上的艱難航線，美國(guó)幾年間大約損失了五百多架飛機(jī)，美中兩國(guó)飛行員犧牲了一千五百多人。因?yàn)樯焦壤锏娘w機(jī)碎片在陽(yáng)光下閃閃發(fā)光，人們稱之為“鋁谷”。它記載了中美合作的歷史。我講這段歷史，就是希望我們之間這次采訪活動(dòng)從互相尊重、友好的氣氛中開始。你可以問你事先提出的問題，也可以提你希望了解的其它問題。
唐尼總編（以下簡(jiǎn)稱唐）：目前需要中美合作處理的一個(gè)問題就是臺(tái)灣問題，中方需要美方做什么？
溫：臺(tái)灣*領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人最近的一系列言行，特別是“公投”和“制憲”的行徑，充分暴露了他們頑固堅(jiān)持分裂國(guó)家的立場(chǎng)，而且變本加厲地進(jìn)行“*”的活動(dòng)。你問我這個(gè)問題，我也在問，臺(tái)灣*意欲何為？他們究竟想把臺(tái)灣引向何處？他們還尊重不尊重臺(tái)灣人民要和平、要穩(wěn)定、要發(fā)展的意愿？他們是真的希望還是要蓄意破壞臺(tái)海局勢(shì)的和平與穩(wěn)定？這個(gè)問題，大陸同胞關(guān)心，臺(tái)灣同胞關(guān)心，美國(guó)和國(guó)際社會(huì)也關(guān)心。我們對(duì)臺(tái)灣的政策是明確的，這就是“和平統(tǒng)一，一國(guó)兩制”。我們不放棄和平解決臺(tái)灣問題的努力，因?yàn)檫@符合包括臺(tái)灣同胞在內(nèi)的全中國(guó)人民的根本利益，但是對(duì)任何分裂祖國(guó)的挑釁行動(dòng)，我們不會(huì)坐視不管。
中國(guó)的主權(quán)和領(lǐng)土完整是不可分割的。中國(guó)政府堅(jiān)持一個(gè)中國(guó)的立場(chǎng)是堅(jiān)定不移的，是不容挑戰(zhàn)的。我希望美國(guó)政府能夠注意到臺(tái)灣*領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人破壞國(guó)家統(tǒng)一的嚴(yán)重性和危險(xiǎn)性，不要向他們發(fā)出錯(cuò)誤信號(hào)，應(yīng)該采取有助于臺(tái)海局勢(shì)和平與穩(wěn)定的實(shí)際行動(dòng)。
唐：你說(shuō)希望美國(guó)采取實(shí)際行動(dòng)，具體是指哪方面行動(dòng)？
溫：中美關(guān)系中的重要問題是臺(tái)灣問題。在臺(tái)灣問題上，美國(guó)應(yīng)該明確堅(jiān)持中美三個(gè)聯(lián)合公報(bào)，反對(duì)“*”，明確反對(duì)臺(tái)灣*領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人以“公投”、“制憲”等手段推行臺(tái)灣“獨(dú)立”的分裂活動(dòng)，并遵守“八一七”公報(bào)的原則，停止售臺(tái)武器。這樣做，從根本上有利于臺(tái)海局勢(shì)的和平與穩(wěn)定，也有利于我們和平統(tǒng)一祖國(guó)的進(jìn)程，從根本上有利于世界的和平與穩(wěn)定。
唐：如果臺(tái)灣*不顧中美所表達(dá)的反對(duì)意見，一意孤行，在目前的道路上繼續(xù)往下走，中國(guó)會(huì)采取什么行動(dòng)？
溫：這是最關(guān)鍵的問題。臺(tái)灣是中國(guó)神圣的領(lǐng)土，是中國(guó)不可分割的一部分。中國(guó)任何一屆政府都不會(huì)放棄和平統(tǒng)一祖國(guó)的立場(chǎng)。我們完全理解臺(tái)灣人民的民主訴求，也完全理解臺(tái)灣人民希望有一個(gè)和平的環(huán)境。但是當(dāng)臺(tái)灣*的領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人試圖要把祖國(guó)的領(lǐng)土分裂出去的時(shí)候，任何一個(gè)中國(guó)人都不會(huì)答應(yīng)。中國(guó)人民會(huì)不惜一切代價(jià)，維護(hù)祖國(guó)的統(tǒng)一。我想你大概熟悉林肯總統(tǒng)的一句話，他在演說(shuō)中曾經(jīng)說(shuō)過(guò)，一個(gè)“自相分裂的家庭是站立不住的”。他還說(shuō)過(guò)，美國(guó)由各州組成的“聯(lián)邦乃是永久性的”。我們不希望事態(tài)發(fā)展到這一步，因此我們不放棄和平的努力。
唐：中國(guó)是美國(guó)重要的貿(mào)易伙伴，然而美國(guó)政府最近宣布，要對(duì)中國(guó)某些紡織品的出口設(shè)限。你認(rèn)為中國(guó)有必要采取報(bào)復(fù)措施嗎？
溫：中美經(jīng)貿(mào)關(guān)系中產(chǎn)生的問題應(yīng)該得到妥善的處理，因?yàn)榘l(fā)展中美經(jīng)貿(mào)關(guān)系，符合兩國(guó)人民的根本利益。在1972年，就是30年前，中美貿(mào)易幾乎沒有統(tǒng)計(jì)數(shù)字?；粮裨L問中國(guó)的時(shí)候，只允許美國(guó)人帶100美元到中國(guó)來(lái)買東西。中美貿(mào)易有確切統(tǒng)計(jì)數(shù)字始于1979年，不到25億美元。經(jīng)過(guò)25年，中美貿(mào)易額達(dá)到了1000億美元，增長(zhǎng)了40倍。應(yīng)該說(shuō)，這對(duì)于兩國(guó)人民都是有利的。我知道，美方關(guān)心美中貿(mào)易逆差問題。我想說(shuō)明幾句，第一，美中貿(mào)易逆差是結(jié)構(gòu)性和轉(zhuǎn)移性的。當(dāng)美中貿(mào)易逆差擴(kuò)大的時(shí)候，中國(guó)對(duì)亞洲許多國(guó)家的逆差也在擴(kuò)大。中國(guó)今年1至10月出口增長(zhǎng)32％，但進(jìn)口增長(zhǎng)40％。第二，中國(guó)出口的產(chǎn)品， 65％是中外合資或者是外國(guó)獨(dú)資企業(yè)生產(chǎn)的。一半以上是來(lái)料加工。出口產(chǎn)品中的許多豐厚利潤(rùn)，都被外商拿走了。這里就包含了美國(guó)設(shè)在中國(guó)的企業(yè)，比如像摩托羅拉、沃爾瑪。第三，中國(guó)出口到美國(guó)的商品是美國(guó)民眾需要的，而且物美價(jià)廉，這些商品出口到美國(guó)有利于穩(wěn)定美國(guó)的物價(jià)，也有利于滿足美國(guó)人民生活的日常需要。第四，中國(guó)不追求長(zhǎng)期過(guò)大的貿(mào)易順差，我們貿(mào)易政策的基本原則是進(jìn)出基本平衡。我們?cè)敢忾_放市場(chǎng)，從美國(guó)以及其他國(guó)家多進(jìn)口產(chǎn)品，特別是高科技產(chǎn)品。前不久，中國(guó)有幾個(gè)采購(gòu)團(tuán)到美國(guó)，簽訂了幾十億美元的合同，表明了中國(guó)的誠(chéng)意。但是我們也希望，美國(guó)也應(yīng)該給予中國(guó)市場(chǎng)經(jīng)濟(jì)國(guó)家的地位，對(duì)中國(guó)不要加以限制，也應(yīng)該開放市場(chǎng)。有一個(gè)例子大概你知道，幾年前中國(guó)向勞拉衛(wèi)星公司定購(gòu)一顆衛(wèi)星，并支付了1.3億美元定金。但是美國(guó)有關(guān)方面不同意，因此這個(gè)合同至今沒有兌現(xiàn)，1.3億美元也沒有退還。實(shí)際上，這種限制完全影響不了中國(guó)的發(fā)展和進(jìn)步。正是在這幾年，中國(guó)不斷發(fā)射衛(wèi)星，甚至把飛船送上了天。一些數(shù)控機(jī)床、計(jì)算機(jī)，中國(guó)自己都能夠研制，而且某些方面并不落后，但是美國(guó)方面還把它們列入限制對(duì)華出口產(chǎn)品。
唐：還是關(guān)于紡織品問題。盡管中國(guó)做了許多，但美國(guó)還是采取了這樣的行動(dòng)，這是否使你感到意外，中國(guó)還會(huì)采取什么樣的措施？
溫：不僅使我感到意外，也使我感到震驚，使中國(guó)人民感到意外和震驚。為了價(jià)值僅4億－5億美元的紡織品，在未同中國(guó)事先商談的情況下，單方面公布這樣的限制措施，應(yīng)該說(shuō)十分傷害中國(guó)人民的感情。不知道你是不是注意到了國(guó)際的反應(yīng)和專家的反應(yīng)，這種決策甚至影響到美國(guó)的市場(chǎng)。我又要用中國(guó)的一句話，“不畏浮云遮望眼，只緣身在層?！蔽覀儜?yīng)該用登泰山一覽眾山小的戰(zhàn)略眼光來(lái)看待我們的經(jīng)貿(mào)合作和其他方面的合作關(guān)系。我們之間應(yīng)該建立經(jīng)常性的協(xié)調(diào)和合作機(jī)制，解決經(jīng)貿(mào)關(guān)系中出現(xiàn)的問題。這是我這次訪美要提的建議。這種機(jī)制能夠保證我們通過(guò)平等協(xié)商來(lái)處理兩國(guó)的爭(zhēng)端，而不要?jiǎng)虞m制裁和限制。那樣不僅于事無(wú)補(bǔ)，而且會(huì)損害兩國(guó)的利益。我希望紡織品問題能夠通過(guò)雙方協(xié)商妥善加以解決。
唐：有人說(shuō)，調(diào)整中國(guó)人民幣的匯率政策有助于改進(jìn)中美貿(mào)易狀況，你同意這種觀點(diǎn)嗎？
溫：人民幣匯率改革始于1994年。我們當(dāng)時(shí)確定的機(jī)制是以市場(chǎng)供求為基礎(chǔ)，單一的、有管理的浮動(dòng)匯率。有人說(shuō)，人民幣匯率固定不變，這不是事實(shí)。浮動(dòng)的幅度小，這是事實(shí)。1994年到現(xiàn)在，人民幣實(shí)際對(duì)美元升值了18.5％，對(duì)歐元升值39.4％。1997年亞洲發(fā)生金融風(fēng)暴后，我們頂住了要求人民幣貶值的壓力。從那個(gè)時(shí)候起，人民幣浮動(dòng)幅度小了。我認(rèn)為一個(gè)國(guó)家匯率制度應(yīng)該從這個(gè)國(guó)家的國(guó)情出發(fā)，依據(jù)它的經(jīng)濟(jì)和金融發(fā)展?fàn)顩r來(lái)決定。毋庸諱言，我們金融改革的任務(wù)還十分艱巨，我們?cè)?996年才實(shí)行經(jīng)常項(xiàng)目下的人民幣可兌換，但是實(shí)行資本項(xiàng)目下的人民幣完全可兌換，還需要長(zhǎng)時(shí)間的艱苦努力。我可以明確向你表示，我們一定要加快金融改革，而且在加快金融改革的進(jìn)程中探索人民幣面向市場(chǎng)浮動(dòng)的合理的匯率形成機(jī)制。我不認(rèn)為人民幣匯率是影響中美貿(mào)易不平衡的重要因素，中國(guó)產(chǎn)品出口增加，最重要的是中國(guó)擁有豐富而又有競(jìng)爭(zhēng)力的勞動(dòng)力。
唐：在朝核問題上，中美之間正在密切合作，確保朝鮮半島無(wú)核化。你認(rèn)為朝鮮目前有沒有核武器？
溫：我確實(shí)回答不了你的問題，我真的不知道。但是我可以明確告訴你我們的態(tài)度，我們希望朝鮮半島沒有核武器，而且希望朝鮮半島和平與穩(wěn)定。
唐：布什總統(tǒng)已經(jīng)表明美國(guó)無(wú)意進(jìn)攻朝鮮，為使美朝達(dá)成協(xié)議，美國(guó)方面還需要采取哪些具體步驟？
溫：目前朝鮮半島和談進(jìn)程有所進(jìn)展。朝方表示，擁核不是目的，而無(wú)核是最終目標(biāo)。最近朝方又提出，在他們的安全關(guān)切得到保證，也就是說(shuō)，在美國(guó)消除對(duì)朝鮮敵視政策的前提下，他們可以放棄核武器發(fā)展計(jì)劃。布什政府也反復(fù)強(qiáng)調(diào)無(wú)意侵犯朝鮮，無(wú)意改變朝鮮現(xiàn)行制度，希望通過(guò)和平談判解決朝鮮半島核問題。應(yīng)該說(shuō)，雙方的立場(chǎng)比過(guò)去更加接近了。我希望還是繼續(xù)北京六方會(huì)談，各方通過(guò)相互尊重、平等互信、互相磋商，找到一個(gè)為各方所接受的和平解決朝鮮核問題的方案。
唐：達(dá)賴?yán)锉硎緹o(wú)意尋求*，中國(guó)政府代表是否會(huì)與達(dá)賴及其代表見面談判？
溫：遺憾的是，達(dá)賴?yán)锊]有真正放棄“*”立場(chǎng)，沒有停止分裂祖國(guó)的活動(dòng)，也沒有承認(rèn)臺(tái)灣是中國(guó)領(lǐng)土不可分割的一部分。我們注意到他近期的一些言論，但還要聽其言，觀其行。只要達(dá)賴?yán)镎嬲艞墶?”的主張，承認(rèn)西藏是中國(guó)領(lǐng)土不可分割的一部分，臺(tái)灣是中國(guó)領(lǐng)土不可分割的一部分，我們就可以恢復(fù)同他的接觸和商談。中央政府同達(dá)賴?yán)锝佑|的大門是敞開的。
唐：中國(guó)的經(jīng)濟(jì)改革發(fā)展迅速，使得中國(guó)在短期內(nèi)取得高速增長(zhǎng)。中國(guó)的政治改革是否需要跟上經(jīng)濟(jì)改革的步伐？
溫：從1978年開始的中國(guó)改革是全面的改革，不僅包括經(jīng)濟(jì)體制改革，而且包括政治體制改革。正如鄧小平先生所說(shuō)，沒有政治體制改革作保證，經(jīng)濟(jì)體制改革不可能成功。我們進(jìn)行的政治體制改革，從本質(zhì)上說(shuō)，是要把加強(qiáng)黨的領(lǐng)導(dǎo)、依法治國(guó)和人民當(dāng)家作主統(tǒng)一起來(lái)。當(dāng)前最重要的是做好這樣幾件事：第一、發(fā)展民主，保障人民的民主權(quán)利和人權(quán)。第二、完善法制，加強(qiáng)立法，依法行政，推進(jìn)司法改革。第三、依法治國(guó)，使我們的社會(huì)主義民主政治法制化、規(guī)范化和程序化。使這種制度不因領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人的改變而改變，不因領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人的看法、注意力的改變而改變。第四、加強(qiáng)監(jiān)督，特別是人民對(duì)政府的監(jiān)督。只有發(fā)揚(yáng)民主，加強(qiáng)監(jiān)督，政府才不敢懈怠，才不會(huì)人亡政息。我們是有13億人的大國(guó)，推進(jìn)政治體制改革必須有領(lǐng)導(dǎo)、有步驟地進(jìn)行。現(xiàn)在有許多誤解，比如宗教信仰問題。中國(guó)的憲法明確規(guī)定公民有宗教信仰自由，現(xiàn)在中國(guó)信教人數(shù)超過(guò)1億人，宗教活動(dòng)場(chǎng)所有10萬(wàn)多個(gè)。改革開放以來(lái)，大約每3天就新建或重建一處宗教活動(dòng)場(chǎng)所。在中南海不遠(yuǎn)的地方，就有宗教活動(dòng)場(chǎng)所，東有王府井的天主教堂，南有牛街的伊斯蘭清真寺，北有佛教的雍和宮，西有道教的白云觀。在中南海最近的地方，有歷史較長(zhǎng)的西什庫(kù)教堂。你可以到這些地方看看，有很多宗教信徒在那里從事宗教活動(dòng)。中國(guó)5000年的歷史在宗教發(fā)展方面有很大的包容性。中國(guó)5大宗教中只有道教是本土產(chǎn)生的，其他4種宗教都是外面?zhèn)鱽?lái)的，佛教是從印度傳來(lái)的，基督教和天主教是從西方傳來(lái)的，伊斯蘭教是從中東、西亞傳來(lái)的。
唐：今后中國(guó)在政治改革方面還會(huì)有什么步驟？比如說(shuō)現(xiàn)在的直接選舉，是否會(huì)從基層推進(jìn)到鄉(xiāng)鎮(zhèn)？
溫：目前，我們?cè)?8萬(wàn)個(gè)村一級(jí)實(shí)行村民自治和直接選舉。這是一個(gè)很大的創(chuàng)舉，也是對(duì)農(nóng)民的很大鍛煉。我們?cè)诳h、鄉(xiāng)和不設(shè)區(qū)的市實(shí)行的是普選人民代表。在省和設(shè)區(qū)的市以至中央，實(shí)行間接選舉。為什么這樣做？因?yàn)橹袊?guó)很大，人口很多，經(jīng)濟(jì)不發(fā)達(dá)，發(fā)展又不平衡，在現(xiàn)階段不可能在高層開展直接選舉，條件還不成熟，首先文化素質(zhì)就不夠。
唐：中國(guó)現(xiàn)在經(jīng)濟(jì)增長(zhǎng)勢(shì)頭很猛，比較富裕的地區(qū)和比較貧困的地區(qū)的差距會(huì)不會(huì)進(jìn)一步擴(kuò)大？
溫：我有這樣的擔(dān)心。前不久，美國(guó)商務(wù)部長(zhǎng)埃文斯訪華，先去了中國(guó)的西北。他給我?guī)?lái)了兩張中國(guó)西部農(nóng)村的照片。他了解到，中國(guó)的西北農(nóng)村還很落后。我對(duì)他講，你知道這一點(diǎn)，今天我們談?wù)摰膯栴}都可以解決了。我本人到過(guò)全國(guó) 1800多個(gè)縣，可以說(shuō)中國(guó)最窮困的地方我都到過(guò)。我深知中國(guó)的發(fā)展是不平衡的。你可以看到，東部地區(qū)、一些大城市，有很多高樓大廈。而在一些農(nóng)村，農(nóng)民還住在茅草房里，還在用牛耕種。中國(guó)還有 3000萬(wàn)人沒有解決溫飽問題。我們新一屆領(lǐng)導(dǎo)通過(guò)抗擊非典型肺炎這場(chǎng)疾病，得到一個(gè)重要的啟示，就是要注意協(xié)調(diào)發(fā)展。城鄉(xiāng)發(fā)展不平衡，經(jīng)濟(jì)和社會(huì)發(fā)展不平衡，就如同一個(gè)人一條腿長(zhǎng)一條腿短一樣，一定會(huì)跌跤的。一個(gè)國(guó)家一條腿長(zhǎng)一條腿短，也會(huì)跌跤的。但是我們必須在發(fā)展中解決這些問題，這就是說(shuō)東部地區(qū)繼續(xù)加快發(fā)展，有條件的地方率先基本實(shí)現(xiàn)現(xiàn)代化，可以提供更多的財(cái)力來(lái)支援中部和西部地區(qū)。與此同時(shí)，我們實(shí)施西部大開發(fā)戰(zhàn)略。最近，我們又提出振興東北等老工業(yè)基地戰(zhàn)略。這樣實(shí)行東西互動(dòng)，帶動(dòng)中部，使中國(guó)能夠逐步走向協(xié)調(diào)發(fā)展。但是，請(qǐng)記住，這是一個(gè)很長(zhǎng)的過(guò)程。
唐：是不是出于同樣考慮，你們決定修改憲法，保護(hù)私有財(cái)產(chǎn)，而且允許農(nóng)民轉(zhuǎn)讓土地使用權(quán)？
溫：我們確定了一條重要方針，就是堅(jiān)持以公有制為主體、多種所有制經(jīng)濟(jì)共同發(fā)展。我們把它概括為兩個(gè)毫不動(dòng)搖，就是毫不動(dòng)搖地發(fā)展公有制經(jīng)濟(jì)，毫不動(dòng)搖地發(fā)展個(gè)體私營(yíng)等非公有制經(jīng)濟(jì)，并將此作為基本經(jīng)濟(jì)制度載入了憲法。最近中國(guó)共產(chǎn)黨十六屆三中全會(huì)提出了產(chǎn)權(quán)制度的概念，明確要求要制定保護(hù)私有財(cái)產(chǎn)的法律、法規(guī)。這樣做完全是從中國(guó)實(shí)際出發(fā)，是實(shí)事求是的，有利于中國(guó)經(jīng)濟(jì)的發(fā)展，也有利于緩解就業(yè)的壓力，有利于增強(qiáng)社會(huì)公眾的創(chuàng)業(yè)和創(chuàng)新動(dòng)力，有利于共同富裕。中國(guó)目前個(gè)體私營(yíng)經(jīng)濟(jì)的從業(yè)人員達(dá)到 8000萬(wàn)。個(gè)體私營(yíng)經(jīng)濟(jì)在國(guó)民生產(chǎn)總值中的比重已達(dá)到 23％。在農(nóng)村我們實(shí)行的是家庭承包經(jīng)營(yíng)制度，允許農(nóng)民經(jīng)營(yíng)的土地依法有償轉(zhuǎn)讓，這是早已規(guī)定了的。
唐：金融體制方面是否需要做出調(diào)整，以使私營(yíng)企業(yè)得到更多的資金支持？如何解決大銀行的不良貸款？
溫：金融體制改革是我們經(jīng)濟(jì)體制改革的重頭戲。中國(guó)金融體系存在許多問題，最主要的就是銀行不良貸款比例較高，存在著很大的金融隱患。主要原因在于體制，必須加快對(duì)銀行體制的改革。我們的目標(biāo)是建立現(xiàn)代銀行制度，使銀行能夠成為自主經(jīng)營(yíng)、自負(fù)盈虧、真正的商業(yè)銀行。要實(shí)行銀行公司治理結(jié)構(gòu)的改造，實(shí)行股份制，具備條件的，允許上市。你提到一個(gè)很重要的問題，就是要加強(qiáng)金融機(jī)構(gòu)對(duì)中小企業(yè)、特別是民營(yíng)企業(yè)的支持。應(yīng)該說(shuō)，在這方面做的是不夠的。中小企業(yè)特別是民營(yíng)企業(yè)對(duì)于吸納勞動(dòng)力、解決就業(yè)問題可以發(fā)揮重要作用。我們要在加強(qiáng)監(jiān)管、防范風(fēng)險(xiǎn)的同時(shí)加大銀行對(duì)他們的扶持力度。
唐：1989年的時(shí)候你去了天安門廣場(chǎng)，見到了學(xué)生們，他們是*分子，還是愛國(guó)者？
溫：上個(gè)世紀(jì)八十年代末九十年代初，蘇聯(lián)、東歐發(fā)生劇變，在中國(guó)也發(fā)生了一場(chǎng)政治風(fēng)波。當(dāng)時(shí)，中國(guó)黨和政府及時(shí)果斷地采取措施，維護(hù)了社會(huì)的穩(wěn)定，并且下定決心繼續(xù)推進(jìn)改革開放。10多年來(lái)，中國(guó)發(fā)展的歷史證明，穩(wěn)定在中國(guó)是至關(guān)重要的。作為中國(guó)的總理，我最關(guān)心的是中國(guó)的穩(wěn)定與發(fā)展問題，因?yàn)橹袊?guó)有13 億人口。
唐：你剛才講到穩(wěn)定對(duì)中國(guó)是至關(guān)重要的。而布什總統(tǒng)在他最近兩次重要演講中，都談到自由的重要性，認(rèn)為自由是美國(guó)的核心價(jià)值觀。你認(rèn)為美中兩國(guó)的價(jià)值觀是不同，還是相似？對(duì)于未來(lái)中美關(guān)系的發(fā)展有什么影響？
溫：我想反問一句，在中國(guó)改革開放 25年、經(jīng)濟(jì)發(fā)生巨大變化的同時(shí)，難道你們沒有看到中國(guó)人民民主和自由發(fā)生的變化？比如擇業(yè)自由，獲取信息的自由，旅游的自由。25年以前，中國(guó)人到外國(guó)去，包括到我們自己的香港去，都是不可能的?，F(xiàn)在每年有上千萬(wàn)人次到世界各地去。還有我剛才講的宗教信仰自由問題。我想對(duì)先生講一句我的感受，作為中國(guó)的總理，我感覺擔(dān)子很重，工作難度很大，工作也做不完。13億，是一個(gè)很大的數(shù)字，如果你用乘法來(lái)算，一個(gè)很小的問題，乘以 13億，都會(huì)變成一個(gè)大問題。如果你用除法的話，一個(gè)很大的總量，除以 13億，都會(huì)變成一個(gè)小的數(shù)目。這是許多外國(guó)人不容易理解的。
我記得杰斐遜起草的《獨(dú)立宣言》有這樣一段話：人生而平等。由于人生而平等，他們都享有固有的不可剝奪的權(quán)利，其中有維護(hù)生命和自由的權(quán)利以及追求幸福的權(quán)利。我剛才講到，在中國(guó)，講人權(quán)首先是生存權(quán)和發(fā)展權(quán)。有些西方朋友感到不可理解。其實(shí)，讀讀杰斐遜 1776年起草的《獨(dú)立宣言》，他也是把生存權(quán)擺在了第一位。難道從 18世紀(jì)的《獨(dú)立宣言》，到 19世紀(jì)的南北戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)，到 20世紀(jì)的馬丁·路德·金事件，不也反映了美國(guó)民主和自由發(fā)展的過(guò)程嗎？恕我直言，美國(guó)有一些人對(duì)中國(guó)的了解不如我們對(duì)美國(guó)了解的多。
唐：從你的談話中，可以看出你對(duì)美國(guó)非常了解，你訪問過(guò)美國(guó)嗎？
溫：應(yīng)該說(shuō)我去過(guò)美國(guó)，但我沒有訪問過(guò)。我是訪問南美的時(shí)候，路經(jīng)美國(guó)，在紐約、洛杉磯都住過(guò)幾天。
唐：你一定讀了很多有關(guān)美國(guó)的書籍，給你留下深刻印象的是什么？
溫：我的愛好就是讀書。讀書伴隨著我的整個(gè)生活。談到讀美國(guó)的書，我可以跟你講一個(gè)故事，就是我見韓國(guó)總統(tǒng)盧武鉉時(shí)，他說(shuō)他的就職演說(shuō)引用了林肯 1861年的一段演說(shuō)。我回去翻我書架上有關(guān)林肯的書，發(fā)現(xiàn)在同樣的一段話下，我用鉛筆畫滿了紅線。林肯說(shuō)，記憶的神秘琴弦，從每一個(gè)戰(zhàn)場(chǎng)和每一個(gè)愛國(guó)者的墳?zāi)?，延伸到這些廣闊國(guó)土上的每一顆跳動(dòng)著的心和每一個(gè)家庭，它一定會(huì)被觸動(dòng)，它一旦被我們天性中善良的性靈所觸動(dòng)，必將奏出聯(lián)邦的大合唱。我想林肯處理南北戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)的態(tài)度影響了盧武鉉，他希望朝鮮半島南北和解。
唐：非常感謝你抽出這么多的時(shí)間接受我們的采訪，非常感謝！
溫：最后我還想說(shuō)幾句話。去年江澤民主席訪問貴國(guó)，今年胡錦濤主席兩次會(huì)晤布什總統(tǒng)，都明確表達(dá)了中方的態(tài)度，這就是繼續(xù)改善和發(fā)展同美國(guó)的關(guān)系。美國(guó)是世界上最發(fā)達(dá)的國(guó)家。中國(guó)是世界上人口最多的發(fā)展中國(guó)家。發(fā)展中美兩國(guó)的友好合作，不僅會(huì)造福兩國(guó)人民，而且有利于亞洲和世界的和平與穩(wěn)定。1972年，兩國(guó)有遠(yuǎn)見的領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人打開了中美關(guān)系的大門，結(jié)束了我們 23年的相互隔閡和不交往的歷史，開始了兩國(guó)和平相處的歷史。盡管風(fēng)風(fēng)雨雨，跌宕起伏，但是兩國(guó)關(guān)系還是前進(jìn)的。那么這 50多年的歷史告訴我們什么？起碼告訴我們?nèi)c(diǎn)，第一，和則兩利，斗則俱傷。第二，中美兩國(guó)有著合作的基礎(chǔ)和共同的利益。第三，中美友好合作不僅有利于亞太地區(qū)，而且有利于世界的和平與穩(wěn)定。
溫家寶總理接受《華盛頓郵報(bào)》總編唐尼采訪
Nov. 21， 2003
Interview with Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao on Nov. 21， 2003 by Executive Editor Leonard Downie Jr.， Assistant Managing Editor for Foreign News Philip Bennett， and Washington Post correspondents John Pomfret， Philip P. Pan and Peter S. Goodman.
新華社北京十一月二十三日電 國(guó)務(wù)院總理溫家寶二十一日在中南海紫光閣接受了美國(guó)《華盛頓郵報(bào)》總編唐尼的采訪。
Premier Wen：
I know this is your first time in China， so let me start by extending my warmest welcome to you and your colleagues. I can quote one fitting ancient Chinese poem to describe our meeting： “Good friends highly value their words. They travel a thousand li to keep their promise for a gathering.” In a few days time I will visit your great country. So first of all I wish to convey through The Washington Post my cordial greetings and best wishes to the great American people.
I remember only a couple of days after the September 11 incident I was here receiving participants during an international financial conference in Beijing. And among the delegates to the meeting there was one lady expert from the United States. I noticed that she looked very sad and lonely， so I extended my hand to her and expressed my sympathy， and I also asked her to convey my solicitude to the American people.
And this reminds me of the fact that China and the United States， two great nations， have had exchanges for over 200 years and across three centuries. And I remember so well so many touching stories about the profound friendship and good cooperation between the two peoples. In the 1860s， Chinese workers， by the tens of thousands， went to the U.S. to build the trans-continental railroad that links the east and west coast. The Chinese workers defied starvation and cold. Many other workers could not endure the harsh conditions. Only the Chinese workers stuck it out to the very end. Many， many Chinese workers lost their lives in the process of construction and there were too many to count. However， it was recorded in history that the last track was laid by four Chinese workers. Hence， in 1991， the state of Illinois sent a delegation to Shanghai solely for the purpose of building a monument with 3000 railway spikes and they said that the contribution of Chinese workers was essential in linking the east and west coasts and promoting national unity. I also remember very well that from May 1942 to September 1945 a group of young American pilots from the famous Flying Tiger squadron flew the Hump Route to support China during the war against fascism. The Hump Route was famous for its danger and in those years more than 500 planes crashed， claiming the lives of more than 1，500 Chinese and American pilots. That route was also known as the aluminum trail for the wreckage of crashed planes glittering in the sunlight. However， that route is a testimony to the cooperation between the Chinese and the Americans. The reason why I recall these touching stories is because I hope our interview will start in a good atmosphere of mutual respect and friendship.
Q： One of the current issues for joint Chinese and American action is the current situation in Taiwan. What would you like the President of the United States to do to help China deal with the current situation in Taiwan？
A： The recent remarks and activities by the leaders of the Taiwan authorities， especially their deliberate provocations on the referendum issue and writing a constitution， show clearly not only their obstinate clinging to national splittism but also their stepped up efforts at Taiwan independence.
You put the question of Taiwan to me. Actually， I have also been asking questions： What are the Taiwan authorities driving at with all that they are doing and where are they taking Taiwan？ Do they still respect the cherished aspirations of the Taiwan compatriots for peace， stability and development？ Do they really want to maintain peace and stability in the Taiwan Straits or are they bent on disrupting peace and stability in the Taiwan Straits？ I believe that these questions are of concern to the Chinese people and of concern to our Taiwan compatriots， and they are also of concern to the United States and the international community at large.
Our policy toward Taiwan is a clear-cut one. It is peaceful reunification and “one country， two systems.” We will not give up our efforts for a peaceful settlement of the question of Taiwan because a peaceful settlement is in the fundamental interests of all Chinese people， our Taiwan compatriots included. But we will not sit by and do nothing faced with provocative activities aimed at splitting the motherland. China's sovereignty and territorial integrity brook no division and the position of the Chinese government on upholding the one-China principle is rock firm and defies all challenges. I hope the U.S. government will recognize the gravity and danger of the provocative remarks and actions taken by the leader of the Taiwan authorities that would undermine the prospects for peaceful reunification and that the U.S. side would not send any wrong signals to the Taiwan authorities. And we hope that the U.S. side would take practical measures that are conducive to the maintenance of peace and stability in the Taiwan Straits.
Q： Are there specific measures that you would like the United States to take？ Do you have specific measures in mind？
The Taiwan question is the most important and sensitive issue in the China-U.S. relationship. So on the question of Taiwan， the U.S. side must be very straightforward in adhering to the principles of the three Sino-U.S. joint communiques and in opposing Taiwan independence. The U.S. side must be crystal clear in opposing the use of a referendum or writing a constitution or all other tactics used by the leader of Taiwan authorities to pursue his separatist agenda. And the U.S. side must adhere to the principle of the Aug. 17 communique and refrain from upgrading arms sales to Taiwan both in quantity and quality. This will fundamentally help maintain peace and stability in the Taiwan Straits. It will also be conducive to the advancement of the process of the peaceful reunification of China. It will also be fundamentally helpful to the maintenance of world peace and stability.
Q： If the leadership of Taiwan continues to proceed along the road it is on， despite what you say and despite what the Americans might say， what measures is China prepared to take？
A： That is the most crucial question. I can clearly say this， Mr. Executive Editor， Taiwan is China's sacred territory and is an inalienable part of Chinese territory. No Chinese government will abandon the position of peaceful reunification on this question. We completely understand the desire of the Taiwan compatriots for democracy， and we also understand their hopes for a peaceful environment. However， when the leadership of the Taiwan authorities wants to separate Taiwan from Chinese territory， no Chinese will agree.
The Chinese people will pay any price to safeguard the unity of the motherland.
I assume that you are familiar with the words of President Lincoln， who once said， “a house divided against itself will not stand.” So the U.S. federal government would never allow any of its states to secede from the United States. It is our hope that the situation would not lead to that point. Therefore， we still won抰 give up our efforts for peace.
Q： Another issue in U.S.-Chinese relations is trade. China is a very large trading partner of the United States. Recently， the Bush administration announced its intention to restrict some exports of Chinese textiles. Do you believe it will be necessary for China to take retaliatory action？
A： First， I want to say that the problems that crop up in our bilateral trade and economic cooperation must be handled properly. These questions must be handled properly because the expansion of trade and the development of economic cooperation between us serve the fundamental interests of the Chinese and American peoples. We all may need to recall that in 1972 when the door was open to our relationship 30 years ago， our trade was practically nil. At the time Dr. [Henry] Kissinger visited China， each visiting American to China was only allowed to carry $100 to spend in the Chinese economy. We only started to have statistics about our trade in 1979， and in that year the trade volume was less than $2.5 billion. Now， after 25 years our joint cooperation and trade has developed significantly and trade volume has already reached $100 billion —— that's a 40-fold increase. So you can see the development of such a trade relationship has served the interests of both peoples.
I am aware of the U.S. concern over the huge trade imbalance. I would like to give you a few explanations. First， such a trade imbalance is to a great extent structural and a result of shifting commercial relations. I will give you one example. While the trade deficit that exists between China and the U.S. is going up， China's trade deficit in our trade with Asian countries is also going up at the same time. In the first 10 months of this year， China's exports grew by 32 percent， however our imports grew by 40 percent.
Second， if you look at our export structure， actually Sino-foreign joint ventures or wholly foreign-owned enterprises contribute to 65 percent of our total exports and more than half of our exports involve the processing of imported material or parts， and the majority of profits actually go to the foreign investors. These enterprises include the U.S.-invested enterprises in China， such as Motorola and Wal-Mart.
Third， what we sell to the U.S. market are the products that U.S. consumers need， and Chinese products are affordable but of very good quality. So our exports actually help stabilize the price in the U.S. markets and also satisfy the needs of U.S. consumers.
Fourth， it is not China's aim to seek long-term and excessive trade surpluses. Our aim in trade policy is to have a basic balance between imports and exports. We are willing to open up our markets to buy more from the United States and other countries， especially to purchase high-tech products.
Not so long ago， we sent a few purchasing missions to the United States and they signed contracts worth billions of U.S. dollars. That demonstrates our sincerity. At the same time， we hope that the United States would grant market economy status to China and lift restrictions on China and open up its market.
And we also hope you will lift restrictions on exports to China. I can give you an example. A few years ago， China placed an order for a Loral satellite and we paid a deposit of more than $150 million. However， someone in the U.S. did not want to see a Chinese rocket being used to launch the Loral satellite. Hence， the contract was not implemented and the $150 million deposit has not been refunded.
In reality， these restrictions will not hinder China's development. In the past few years， China has continuously sent satellites successfully into orbit and we also have our space program. For instance， some digital machine tools， some computers —— with respect to these projects， China already has very strong R&D capabilities and in certain areas were are actually at the forefront. Nevertheless， the United States still places these products on the list of restricted items.
Q： Given everything you抳e told me so far， were you surprised then by the action on textiles and is there anything China needs to do in response？
A： I抦 not just surprised， I抦 shocked and the Chinese people have been surprised and shocked. This unilateral restrictive action， occurring just at the time when the Chinese people were expressing their sincerity and involving textile products only worth $400-500 million and without any prior discussion with the Chinese government， seriously wounded the feelings of the Chinese people. I wonder if you have taken note of by the response by the international community and the reaction of experts in the field. Such a decision has hurt the US market. I want to invoke another Chinese saying： We should not be afraid of the dark clouds blocking our view because we are already at a high elevation. With respect to our joint cooperation in trade and in cooperation in other areas， it is important to adopt a strategic perspective like the view you would have when you are already on top of Mount Tai. Then all other mountains would be dwarfed.
We still hope between the China and the U.S. we can establish a mechanism for regular discussion and coordination and cooperation to tackle the problems that might come up. This will be one of the proposals I will bring to the United States because I think such a mechanism would play a positive role in solving problems. The establishment of such a mechanism will provide guarantees for equal consultations as a way to handle our disputes. Arbitrarily imposing sanctions or restrictions will not help solve the problem. On the contrary， it will hurt the interests of both sides.
Q： What is your thinking about the suggestion that changing the way in which the Chinese currency is valued would make a contribution to the trade relations between the two countries？
A： We first began reforming our exchange rate regime in 1994. It was decided at that time that we would adopt a market-based， single， regulated floating exchange rate regime. Some people claim the value of the RENMINBI is fixed and has not changed. This does not square with the facts. I think it would be more accurate to say that the band of fluctuation of the RENMINBI is quite narrow. Since 1994， the RENMINBI has appreciated in real terms by 18.5 percent against the U.S. dollar and by 39.4 percent against the Euro. In 1997， during the Asian financial crisis， we withstood pressure for RENMINBI devaluation and since then， the band of fluctuation of the value of the RENMINBI has been quite narrow.
The exchange rate of the currency a country should be set in accordance to its national conditions and the state of its economic and financial sector. There is no denying we still face very daunting tasks in financial and banking reform. We have already allowed our currency to be freely convertible under current account in 1996， and it will take a very long period of time and arduous efforts before we can achieve the objective of a freely convertible currency under the capital account. We are definitely going to accelerate reform of the financial and banking sector and while we do so we抣l explore how to form a rational mechanism in which the value of the RENMINBI will fluctuate on the basis of market conditions.
I don抰 think the exchange rate of the RENMINBI is an important contributor to the trade imbalance between China and the U.S. If there is any important contributor to the trade imbalance， I think it is the abundant supply of competitive labor in China's market.
Q： China and the United States are working closely together to try to assure that the Korean peninsula remains free of nuclear weapons. Do you believe that North Korea currently possesses nuclear weapons？
A： I am unable to give you an answer to that question because I truly don抰 know. But I can clearly tell you our attitude. We hope the Korean peninsula will be free of nuclear weapons， and we hope that peace and stability will be maintained on the Korean peninsula.
Q： President Bush has assured the North Koreans that the United States does not intend to attack. Are there other specific steps that you believe the United States should be taking to try to bring a resolution， to create an agreement with North Korea？
A： You must have also noticed that there has been some progress in the process of dialogue on the nuclear issue. The DPRK has stated that it does not seek to possess nuclear weapons and that denuclearization is its ultimate goal. And recently， it has also said that under the prerequisite that its security concerns are met and the United States abandons its hostile policy toward the DPRK， the DPRK is prepared to give up its substantive plan to develop a nuclear program. The Bush administration has repeatedly said that the United States has no intention to invade or change the regime of the DPRK， and that it wants to resolve the nuclear issue through diplomatic means， through peaceful negotiations. So in my view， the positions of two sides are now closer than before.
I think the best way is to continue with the Beijing six-party talks so that all parties concerned can sit together to have discussions on the basis of mutual respect， equality and mutual trust， and through such consultations they can， in the end， work out a solution that is acceptable to all parties concerned and that is helpful for the peaceful resolution of the nuclear issue.
Q： Another subject in discussions between the United States and China on occasion is Tibet. The Dalai Lama has declared that he is not seeking independence for Tibet. And I believe former President Jiang Zemin had said on one occasion that he was willing to meet with the Dalai Lama to discuss the situation. Do you foresee face-to-face meetings with the Dalai Lama and representatives of China？
A： Regrettably， the Dalai Lama has not genuinely given up his position of Tibet independence and has not given up the separatist activities aimed at splitting the motherland. He also has not recognized that Taiwan is an inalienable part of Chinese territory.
We have taken note of the recent remarks by the Dalai Lama but we still need to watch very carefully what he really does. So long as he genuinely abandons his position on seeking Tibetan independence and publicly recognizes that Tibet and Taiwan are inalienable parts of Chinese territory， then contacts between him and the central government can resume and we can resume the discussions with him. The door to communication between the central government and the Dalai Lama is wide open.
Q： China's economic performance has been very rapid in recent years， creating a very strong Chinese economy， and great economic growth in a short period of time. Do you also believe political reform should be accelerated to keep pace with economic reform？
A： China embarked on the road to reform and opening up in 1978. Our reform is a comprehensive one which includes both economic and political restructuring. Precisely as Mr. Deng Xiaoping pointed out， without political reform， economic reform will not be successful. In essence political restructuring in China aims at integrating the leadership of the Chinese Communist Party， the people's role as masters of their own affairs and rule of law in the conduct of public affairs.
At present， it is particularly important to do a good job on the following. First of all， we should develop democracy to safeguard people's democratic rights and to respect and protect their human rights. Secondly， we should improve on the legal system through better legislation， better administration according to law， and greater judicial reform. Thirdly， we should run the country according to law， making our socialist democracy more institutionalized， standardized and proceduralized， and in this way we can make sure that it will not change because of changes in the leadership and changes in the views and focus of attention of leaders. Fourth， we must strengthen supervision， and we should make sure that the government is placed under the supervision of the people. We have to develop democracy and strengthen supervision. Only in this way can we make sure the government will not relent in its efforts， and this would help avoid a situation whereby the government would be a failure.
China is a big country with 1.3 billion people. So to press ahead with political reform， it has to be done in an orderly fashion and in a well-organized manner. Now there exist many misunderstandings. I know this is your first time in China. I don抰 know what you have seen. For instance， with regard to freedom of religious belief， freedom of religious belief is actually written into China's constitution. China currently has over 100 million religious followers. China has over 100，000 religious sites. Let me put in another way. Since the beginning of reform and opening up， one religious site has been either newly built or restored every three days. You may just take a walk around the Zhongnanhai compound， and you can see many， many religious sites. For instance， to the south of Zhongnanhai， there's the Chongwenmen Protestant church. To the east of Zhongnanhai， there's the Wangfujing Catholic church. Nearest to Zhongnanhai is the famous Xiciku church. To the north of Zhongnanhai， there's the Yonghe Buddhist monastery. To the west of Zhongnanhai is the Baiyun Taoist temple. You may visit these religious sites. I抦 sure when you are there， you will see not just people practicing their religious faith. At the same time， these religious believers are also law-abiding citizens. Also， to the southwest of Zhongnanhai， there's Islam， the large Niujie mosque.
Over the past 5，000 years of Chinese history， China has been very tolerant toward the development of religion. Among the five major religions in China， only Taoism is an indigenous religious belief. The other four actually came from overseas. For instance， Buddhism came to China from India， Catholicism and Protestantism from the West， and Islam from the Middle East or West Asia.
Q： What steps do you anticipate will be next taken in political reforms？ For example， might direct elections of local governments be extended upward to the township level？
A： You must know quite a lot about Chinese elections. At the moment， we have introduced the practice of self-administration and direct elections in 680，000 villages. This is a great innovation， and it is also very good practice for Chinese farmers. We also introduced suffrage for the election of people's deputies at the level of townships， counties and urban cities without districts. Indirect elections are held for the leadership of the provinces， autonomous regions， municipalities with districts， as well as the central authorities. Why？ This is because China is such a huge country. It has a big population. It is very underdeveloped， and economic development is uneven between regions. So conditions are not ripe for direct elections at the higher levels. The first hindrance in my view is the inadequate education level of the population.
Q： Premier Wen， you mentioned uneven development during this period of great economic growth. Are you concerned about a gap growing in economic conditions between the more well off parts of China and the poorer parts of China， such as in the west？
A： I do have such concerns. Not too long ago， the Commerce Secretary， Mr. Evans， visited China， and he started his visit going to China's northwest. He came to see me and he was sitting right here where you are sitting. He took with him two photographs that were taken when he visited the countryside in China's northwest. From his visit， he learned that the countryside in China is still very backward. So I told him with this knowledge， the problems that he was about to discuss with me could be solved very easily.
I抳e personally been to 1，800 counties throughout the country. So I抦 in a position to say I抳e seen the worst poverty in China. So I know very well how uneven our development has been. Yes， it is true that in the coastal areas in the East， skyscrapers overwhelm you. However， in large areas of the countryside， people are still living in shabby houses with thatch roofs and still use oxen to till the land. Thirty million people are still below the poverty line.
So one important inspirational lesson we have learned from the struggle against the SARS epidemic is that we have to emphasize coordinated development. And this is what the new Chinese leadership has learned from the struggle against SARS.
Uneven development between the urban and rural areas， and imbalance between economic development and social progress —— this situation can be described with an analogy. It's like a human being who has one long leg and one short leg. If one leg is longer than the other， this person is bound to stumble and fall. And a country with one leg longer than the other will also stumble and fall.
We have worked out a strategy for the eastern part of the country to encourage them to continue with the big momentum of their development. And where conditions permit， they should take the lead in achieving modernization. This is because through their development， a lot of financial resources will be made available to support the development of China's center and west. At the same time， we抮e also implementing a strategy to develop China's western region. And very recently， we decided to implement a strategy to revitalize the old industrial bases in China's northeast. So with good interaction between the east and west， we hope to bring along development in the central region of the country. With all these efforts， we hope gradually we can bring about more coordinated development between the two different regions. But I want to remind you that this could be a very time-consuming process.
Q： Is this also the reason why you are changing the constitution to protect private property rights and giving farmers the right to buy and sell land use rights？
A： We have decided on an important policy and that is public ownership will be the mainstay and multiple forms of ownership will develop side by side. To sum up， we can use two unswervingly to describe this. We will unswervingly uphold the public ownership system and develop the public sector， and we will unswervingly encourage， support and guide the development of the non-public sector.
This basic economic system has been written into our constitution， and in the recently held third plenary session of the 16th Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party， the concept of property rights was introduced. It was made very clear at the session that we would formulate legislation protecting private property. Such a move was entirely based on China's actual conditions in the spirit of seeking truth from facts， because this will help accelerate China's economic development. It will also help ease the pressure from employment. It will also give greater scope to the creativity and enterprising spirit of the Chinese population and will in the end help us achieve the goal of common prosperity. At the moment， privately run enterprises employ a total of 80 million workers and they contribute to 23 percent of our GDP. In the countryside， we have the household contract management system. It has long since been stipulated that land operated by farmers can be transferred in a lawful and compensatory manner.
Q： Earlier you mentioned the financial sector. Do important changes need to be made there to provide more financing for the private sector and business？ And does the government need to take steps to deal with the loan problem at some of the big banks？
A： Financial reform is the most difficult and the most crucial part of our overall economic reforms. As is known to all， the financial sector in China has been plagued by many problems. The biggest problem is the fairly high proportion of nonperforming loans from banks. There exists significant risk. The problem is caused by defects in the system. So we have to accelerate the reform of the banking system. Our aim is to put in place a modern banking system whereby the commercial banks will be commercial banks in a true sense. That means they will be responsible for their own operation decisions and they will be held responsible for their profits and losses. On our part， we will help create conditions to introduce corporate governance to the banks through the share-holding system. Those that meet the conditions can go public or be listed.
You also touched upon an important point， that is to ensure there will be more financing in support of small and medium sized enterprises and also the privately run enterprises. I have to admit that not enough has been done in this field， even though the small and medium-sized enterprises play a very important role in creating job opportunities and in providing employment. So while we step up regulation and improve our capability to avoid financial risks， we should make sure that the banks would provide more financing and support of these small and medium-sized enterprises.
Q： If I may ask one question about the events of 1989 in Tiananmen. You went to visit the students there during that time. Have you concluded were they counterrevolutionaries or were they patriots？
A： In the last century， at the turn of the 1980s and 1990s， drastic changes took place in the Soviet Union and countries of Eastern Europe. In China， a political disturbance occurred. At that time， the party and government of China adopted resolute measures in a timely fashion to safeguard social stability and became more determined to press ahead with China's reform and opening up. Our development over the past years has proven that stability is of vital importance for China. As premier of this country， I think the most important issue for me is to ensure stability and development. This is because China has 1.3 billion people.
Q： You抳e talked about stability being an important concern of yours here. President Bush has in two recent major speeches， one in Washington and yesterday in London， has talked about the importance of freedom as a core American value， particularly in reference to the attacks by terrorists on American and British and other targets. Do you see the core values of America and China being different or similar， and how does that affect the future development of Chinese-American relations？
A： Let me ask you a question. In the past 25 years of reform and opening up， enormous changes have taken places in China's economic landscape. Have people from the outside ever seen the changes taking place in China's democracy and freedom？ At the moment， people can choose what kind of jobs they want to have， they can choose what kind of information they seek， they can choose where to visit. Twenty-five years ago， for a Chinese person to visit a foreign country or even to visit Hong Kong， part of our own country， it was very difficult or almost impossible. At the moment， every year， tens of millions of Chinese travelers visit places across the world. And in addition， as I said earlier， we now have freedom of religious belief.
Let me share with you how I feel about my duties. As premier of China， my responsibility is heavy， the job is demanding， and there is endless work to do. 1.3 billion is a very big number. So if we use multiplication， any small problem multiplied by 1.3 billion will end up being a very big problem. For a very big aggregate divided by 1.3 billion， it will come to a very tiny figure. This is something that is quite difficult for foreign visitors to understand and appreciate.
I remember that in the Declaration of Independence， Jefferson wrote that all men are created equal， that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights， that among these are life， liberty and the pursuit of happiness. He put life before anything else. So when we say that for the Chinese people's human rights， the right to life and development is most important， sometimes our friends in the Western countries find this difficult to understand. I think they only need to refer to the Declaration of Independence written by Thomas Jefferson. In 1776， in that Declaration of Independence， he already put the right to life before every other right. The U.S. has also witnessed the process of development of democracy if you look at the history， from the Declaration of Independence in the 18th century， the Civil War in 19th century， and to the Martin Luther King incident in the 20th century.
I was being very straightforward. If I can speak very honestly and in a straightforward manner， I would say the understanding of China by some Americans is not as good as the Chinese people's understanding of the United States.
Q： Speaking of that， you seem to have a very good understanding of the United States. Have you visited the United States before？
A： I have not made an official visit to the United States， but I抳e been to the United States during a stopover on my way to South American countries. I spent a few days in New York and in Los Angeles.
Q： So you know a lot from what you've been reading I imagine about the United States. Is there anything that made a particular impression on you in your reading about the United States？
A： My biggest hobby actually is reading. I don't know how to live without books. They're my best companion. Let me share with you a story. Once I had a meeting with the president of the Republic of Korea， Mr. Roh Moo-hyun， and he told me that in his inauguration speech， he quoted President Abraham Lincoln from one of his speeches in 1861. So after the meeting， I went back home and looked for the book about Abraham Lincoln on my bookshelf， and I found that paragraph. In the very same paragraph， I had already used red pencil to underline these lines.
He wrote， “The mystic cords of memory， stretching from every battlefield and patriot grave， to every living heart and hearthstone， all over this broad land， will yet swell the chorus of the Union， when touched again， as surely they will be， by the better angels of our nature.”
So my understanding is that Lincoln's approach to the Civil War had an impact， an influence on President Roh Moo-hyun on how he's going to address the problems between North and South Korea. President Roh wants to see reconciliation between the two.
I want to make one last remark. The United States is the most developed country in the world. China is the most populous developing country in the world. To develop friendship and cooperation between these two countries will not only bring benefits to our two peoples but will also be conducive to peace and stability in Asia and the world at large. In 1972， farsighted leaders on the two sides opened the door for exchanges between us， and put an end to 23 years of estrangement and no contact. That started the peaceful coexistence between us. Despite the many ups and downs we have experienced， our relationship has moved forward. So what have we learned from the past years of the history of our relationship？ I think at least we can draw three conclusions. First， cooperation will bring benefits to both nations， whereas confrontation will hurt both sides. Second， there exists a good basis of cooperation and common interests between China and the United States. Third， friendship and cooperation between China and the U.S. is not only conducive to peace and stability in the Asia Pacific region， it is also conducive to peace and stability throughout the world.
英文轉(zhuǎn)自《華盛頓郵報(bào)》
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溫家寶總理：
聽說(shuō)你是第一次到中國(guó)來(lái)，我對(duì)你和你的同事們表示熱烈歡迎。中國(guó)有一句古詩(shī)：“結(jié)交一言重，相期千里至?！痹龠^(guò)十幾天，我就要訪問你們偉大的國(guó)家。在這里，我首先通過(guò)貴報(bào)，對(duì)偉大的美國(guó)人民表示親切的問候和良好的祝愿。
記得在“九·一一”事件發(fā)生后的幾天，我會(huì)見到中國(guó)出席國(guó)際金融會(huì)議的外國(guó)代表，其中有一個(gè)美國(guó)的女專家，我看到她的神情表現(xiàn)出哀傷孤寂，我向她伸出手，表示慰問，同時(shí)也請(qǐng)她轉(zhuǎn)達(dá)對(duì)美國(guó)人民的問候。
我們兩個(gè)偉大的國(guó)家，交往的歷史已經(jīng)有二百年了，跨越了三個(gè)世紀(jì)。兩國(guó)人民友誼和合作的動(dòng)人事跡還歷歷在目。十九世紀(jì)六十年代，中國(guó)數(shù)以萬(wàn)計(jì)的華工參加了美國(guó)橫貫東西部大鐵路的修建工作。他們不顧嚴(yán)寒、饑餓和待遇菲薄的惡劣條件，當(dāng)別的建筑隊(duì)伍都撤下來(lái)的時(shí)候，只有中國(guó)這支隊(duì)伍堅(jiān)持到底。最后一根枕木是由四位華工鋪上的。無(wú)數(shù)人為這個(gè)工程獻(xiàn)出了生命。一九九一年伊利諾伊州曾經(jīng)專門派人到上海用三千個(gè)道釘做了個(gè)紀(jì)念碑。他們說(shuō)，中國(guó)筑路工人的貢獻(xiàn)就是溝通了美國(guó)東西部的大通道，并由此推動(dòng)了美國(guó)的統(tǒng)一，這是一個(gè)重要的因素。上個(gè)世紀(jì)，一九四二年五月到一九四五年的九月，美國(guó)派了年輕的飛行員組成“飛虎隊(duì)”，飛越的“駝峰”航線，支持中國(guó)的反法西斯戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)。那是世界上的艱難航線，美國(guó)幾年間大約損失了五百多架飛機(jī)，美中兩國(guó)飛行員犧牲了一千五百多人。因?yàn)樯焦壤锏娘w機(jī)碎片在陽(yáng)光下閃閃發(fā)光，人們稱之為“鋁谷”。它記載了中美合作的歷史。我講這段歷史，就是希望我們之間這次采訪活動(dòng)從互相尊重、友好的氣氛中開始。你可以問你事先提出的問題，也可以提你希望了解的其它問題。
唐尼總編（以下簡(jiǎn)稱唐）：目前需要中美合作處理的一個(gè)問題就是臺(tái)灣問題，中方需要美方做什么？
溫：臺(tái)灣*領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人最近的一系列言行，特別是“公投”和“制憲”的行徑，充分暴露了他們頑固堅(jiān)持分裂國(guó)家的立場(chǎng)，而且變本加厲地進(jìn)行“*”的活動(dòng)。你問我這個(gè)問題，我也在問，臺(tái)灣*意欲何為？他們究竟想把臺(tái)灣引向何處？他們還尊重不尊重臺(tái)灣人民要和平、要穩(wěn)定、要發(fā)展的意愿？他們是真的希望還是要蓄意破壞臺(tái)海局勢(shì)的和平與穩(wěn)定？這個(gè)問題，大陸同胞關(guān)心，臺(tái)灣同胞關(guān)心，美國(guó)和國(guó)際社會(huì)也關(guān)心。我們對(duì)臺(tái)灣的政策是明確的，這就是“和平統(tǒng)一，一國(guó)兩制”。我們不放棄和平解決臺(tái)灣問題的努力，因?yàn)檫@符合包括臺(tái)灣同胞在內(nèi)的全中國(guó)人民的根本利益，但是對(duì)任何分裂祖國(guó)的挑釁行動(dòng)，我們不會(huì)坐視不管。
中國(guó)的主權(quán)和領(lǐng)土完整是不可分割的。中國(guó)政府堅(jiān)持一個(gè)中國(guó)的立場(chǎng)是堅(jiān)定不移的，是不容挑戰(zhàn)的。我希望美國(guó)政府能夠注意到臺(tái)灣*領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人破壞國(guó)家統(tǒng)一的嚴(yán)重性和危險(xiǎn)性，不要向他們發(fā)出錯(cuò)誤信號(hào)，應(yīng)該采取有助于臺(tái)海局勢(shì)和平與穩(wěn)定的實(shí)際行動(dòng)。
唐：你說(shuō)希望美國(guó)采取實(shí)際行動(dòng)，具體是指哪方面行動(dòng)？
溫：中美關(guān)系中的重要問題是臺(tái)灣問題。在臺(tái)灣問題上，美國(guó)應(yīng)該明確堅(jiān)持中美三個(gè)聯(lián)合公報(bào)，反對(duì)“*”，明確反對(duì)臺(tái)灣*領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人以“公投”、“制憲”等手段推行臺(tái)灣“獨(dú)立”的分裂活動(dòng)，并遵守“八一七”公報(bào)的原則，停止售臺(tái)武器。這樣做，從根本上有利于臺(tái)海局勢(shì)的和平與穩(wěn)定，也有利于我們和平統(tǒng)一祖國(guó)的進(jìn)程，從根本上有利于世界的和平與穩(wěn)定。
唐：如果臺(tái)灣*不顧中美所表達(dá)的反對(duì)意見，一意孤行，在目前的道路上繼續(xù)往下走，中國(guó)會(huì)采取什么行動(dòng)？
溫：這是最關(guān)鍵的問題。臺(tái)灣是中國(guó)神圣的領(lǐng)土，是中國(guó)不可分割的一部分。中國(guó)任何一屆政府都不會(huì)放棄和平統(tǒng)一祖國(guó)的立場(chǎng)。我們完全理解臺(tái)灣人民的民主訴求，也完全理解臺(tái)灣人民希望有一個(gè)和平的環(huán)境。但是當(dāng)臺(tái)灣*的領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人試圖要把祖國(guó)的領(lǐng)土分裂出去的時(shí)候，任何一個(gè)中國(guó)人都不會(huì)答應(yīng)。中國(guó)人民會(huì)不惜一切代價(jià)，維護(hù)祖國(guó)的統(tǒng)一。我想你大概熟悉林肯總統(tǒng)的一句話，他在演說(shuō)中曾經(jīng)說(shuō)過(guò)，一個(gè)“自相分裂的家庭是站立不住的”。他還說(shuō)過(guò)，美國(guó)由各州組成的“聯(lián)邦乃是永久性的”。我們不希望事態(tài)發(fā)展到這一步，因此我們不放棄和平的努力。
唐：中國(guó)是美國(guó)重要的貿(mào)易伙伴，然而美國(guó)政府最近宣布，要對(duì)中國(guó)某些紡織品的出口設(shè)限。你認(rèn)為中國(guó)有必要采取報(bào)復(fù)措施嗎？
溫：中美經(jīng)貿(mào)關(guān)系中產(chǎn)生的問題應(yīng)該得到妥善的處理，因?yàn)榘l(fā)展中美經(jīng)貿(mào)關(guān)系，符合兩國(guó)人民的根本利益。在1972年，就是30年前，中美貿(mào)易幾乎沒有統(tǒng)計(jì)數(shù)字?；粮裨L問中國(guó)的時(shí)候，只允許美國(guó)人帶100美元到中國(guó)來(lái)買東西。中美貿(mào)易有確切統(tǒng)計(jì)數(shù)字始于1979年，不到25億美元。經(jīng)過(guò)25年，中美貿(mào)易額達(dá)到了1000億美元，增長(zhǎng)了40倍。應(yīng)該說(shuō)，這對(duì)于兩國(guó)人民都是有利的。我知道，美方關(guān)心美中貿(mào)易逆差問題。我想說(shuō)明幾句，第一，美中貿(mào)易逆差是結(jié)構(gòu)性和轉(zhuǎn)移性的。當(dāng)美中貿(mào)易逆差擴(kuò)大的時(shí)候，中國(guó)對(duì)亞洲許多國(guó)家的逆差也在擴(kuò)大。中國(guó)今年1至10月出口增長(zhǎng)32％，但進(jìn)口增長(zhǎng)40％。第二，中國(guó)出口的產(chǎn)品， 65％是中外合資或者是外國(guó)獨(dú)資企業(yè)生產(chǎn)的。一半以上是來(lái)料加工。出口產(chǎn)品中的許多豐厚利潤(rùn)，都被外商拿走了。這里就包含了美國(guó)設(shè)在中國(guó)的企業(yè)，比如像摩托羅拉、沃爾瑪。第三，中國(guó)出口到美國(guó)的商品是美國(guó)民眾需要的，而且物美價(jià)廉，這些商品出口到美國(guó)有利于穩(wěn)定美國(guó)的物價(jià)，也有利于滿足美國(guó)人民生活的日常需要。第四，中國(guó)不追求長(zhǎng)期過(guò)大的貿(mào)易順差，我們貿(mào)易政策的基本原則是進(jìn)出基本平衡。我們?cè)敢忾_放市場(chǎng)，從美國(guó)以及其他國(guó)家多進(jìn)口產(chǎn)品，特別是高科技產(chǎn)品。前不久，中國(guó)有幾個(gè)采購(gòu)團(tuán)到美國(guó)，簽訂了幾十億美元的合同，表明了中國(guó)的誠(chéng)意。但是我們也希望，美國(guó)也應(yīng)該給予中國(guó)市場(chǎng)經(jīng)濟(jì)國(guó)家的地位，對(duì)中國(guó)不要加以限制，也應(yīng)該開放市場(chǎng)。有一個(gè)例子大概你知道，幾年前中國(guó)向勞拉衛(wèi)星公司定購(gòu)一顆衛(wèi)星，并支付了1.3億美元定金。但是美國(guó)有關(guān)方面不同意，因此這個(gè)合同至今沒有兌現(xiàn)，1.3億美元也沒有退還。實(shí)際上，這種限制完全影響不了中國(guó)的發(fā)展和進(jìn)步。正是在這幾年，中國(guó)不斷發(fā)射衛(wèi)星，甚至把飛船送上了天。一些數(shù)控機(jī)床、計(jì)算機(jī)，中國(guó)自己都能夠研制，而且某些方面并不落后，但是美國(guó)方面還把它們列入限制對(duì)華出口產(chǎn)品。
唐：還是關(guān)于紡織品問題。盡管中國(guó)做了許多，但美國(guó)還是采取了這樣的行動(dòng)，這是否使你感到意外，中國(guó)還會(huì)采取什么樣的措施？
溫：不僅使我感到意外，也使我感到震驚，使中國(guó)人民感到意外和震驚。為了價(jià)值僅4億－5億美元的紡織品，在未同中國(guó)事先商談的情況下，單方面公布這樣的限制措施，應(yīng)該說(shuō)十分傷害中國(guó)人民的感情。不知道你是不是注意到了國(guó)際的反應(yīng)和專家的反應(yīng)，這種決策甚至影響到美國(guó)的市場(chǎng)。我又要用中國(guó)的一句話，“不畏浮云遮望眼，只緣身在層?！蔽覀儜?yīng)該用登泰山一覽眾山小的戰(zhàn)略眼光來(lái)看待我們的經(jīng)貿(mào)合作和其他方面的合作關(guān)系。我們之間應(yīng)該建立經(jīng)常性的協(xié)調(diào)和合作機(jī)制，解決經(jīng)貿(mào)關(guān)系中出現(xiàn)的問題。這是我這次訪美要提的建議。這種機(jī)制能夠保證我們通過(guò)平等協(xié)商來(lái)處理兩國(guó)的爭(zhēng)端，而不要?jiǎng)虞m制裁和限制。那樣不僅于事無(wú)補(bǔ)，而且會(huì)損害兩國(guó)的利益。我希望紡織品問題能夠通過(guò)雙方協(xié)商妥善加以解決。
唐：有人說(shuō)，調(diào)整中國(guó)人民幣的匯率政策有助于改進(jìn)中美貿(mào)易狀況，你同意這種觀點(diǎn)嗎？
溫：人民幣匯率改革始于1994年。我們當(dāng)時(shí)確定的機(jī)制是以市場(chǎng)供求為基礎(chǔ)，單一的、有管理的浮動(dòng)匯率。有人說(shuō)，人民幣匯率固定不變，這不是事實(shí)。浮動(dòng)的幅度小，這是事實(shí)。1994年到現(xiàn)在，人民幣實(shí)際對(duì)美元升值了18.5％，對(duì)歐元升值39.4％。1997年亞洲發(fā)生金融風(fēng)暴后，我們頂住了要求人民幣貶值的壓力。從那個(gè)時(shí)候起，人民幣浮動(dòng)幅度小了。我認(rèn)為一個(gè)國(guó)家匯率制度應(yīng)該從這個(gè)國(guó)家的國(guó)情出發(fā)，依據(jù)它的經(jīng)濟(jì)和金融發(fā)展?fàn)顩r來(lái)決定。毋庸諱言，我們金融改革的任務(wù)還十分艱巨，我們?cè)?996年才實(shí)行經(jīng)常項(xiàng)目下的人民幣可兌換，但是實(shí)行資本項(xiàng)目下的人民幣完全可兌換，還需要長(zhǎng)時(shí)間的艱苦努力。我可以明確向你表示，我們一定要加快金融改革，而且在加快金融改革的進(jìn)程中探索人民幣面向市場(chǎng)浮動(dòng)的合理的匯率形成機(jī)制。我不認(rèn)為人民幣匯率是影響中美貿(mào)易不平衡的重要因素，中國(guó)產(chǎn)品出口增加，最重要的是中國(guó)擁有豐富而又有競(jìng)爭(zhēng)力的勞動(dòng)力。
唐：在朝核問題上，中美之間正在密切合作，確保朝鮮半島無(wú)核化。你認(rèn)為朝鮮目前有沒有核武器？
溫：我確實(shí)回答不了你的問題，我真的不知道。但是我可以明確告訴你我們的態(tài)度，我們希望朝鮮半島沒有核武器，而且希望朝鮮半島和平與穩(wěn)定。
唐：布什總統(tǒng)已經(jīng)表明美國(guó)無(wú)意進(jìn)攻朝鮮，為使美朝達(dá)成協(xié)議，美國(guó)方面還需要采取哪些具體步驟？
溫：目前朝鮮半島和談進(jìn)程有所進(jìn)展。朝方表示，擁核不是目的，而無(wú)核是最終目標(biāo)。最近朝方又提出，在他們的安全關(guān)切得到保證，也就是說(shuō)，在美國(guó)消除對(duì)朝鮮敵視政策的前提下，他們可以放棄核武器發(fā)展計(jì)劃。布什政府也反復(fù)強(qiáng)調(diào)無(wú)意侵犯朝鮮，無(wú)意改變朝鮮現(xiàn)行制度，希望通過(guò)和平談判解決朝鮮半島核問題。應(yīng)該說(shuō)，雙方的立場(chǎng)比過(guò)去更加接近了。我希望還是繼續(xù)北京六方會(huì)談，各方通過(guò)相互尊重、平等互信、互相磋商，找到一個(gè)為各方所接受的和平解決朝鮮核問題的方案。
唐：達(dá)賴?yán)锉硎緹o(wú)意尋求*，中國(guó)政府代表是否會(huì)與達(dá)賴及其代表見面談判？
溫：遺憾的是，達(dá)賴?yán)锊]有真正放棄“*”立場(chǎng)，沒有停止分裂祖國(guó)的活動(dòng)，也沒有承認(rèn)臺(tái)灣是中國(guó)領(lǐng)土不可分割的一部分。我們注意到他近期的一些言論，但還要聽其言，觀其行。只要達(dá)賴?yán)镎嬲艞墶?”的主張，承認(rèn)西藏是中國(guó)領(lǐng)土不可分割的一部分，臺(tái)灣是中國(guó)領(lǐng)土不可分割的一部分，我們就可以恢復(fù)同他的接觸和商談。中央政府同達(dá)賴?yán)锝佑|的大門是敞開的。
唐：中國(guó)的經(jīng)濟(jì)改革發(fā)展迅速，使得中國(guó)在短期內(nèi)取得高速增長(zhǎng)。中國(guó)的政治改革是否需要跟上經(jīng)濟(jì)改革的步伐？
溫：從1978年開始的中國(guó)改革是全面的改革，不僅包括經(jīng)濟(jì)體制改革，而且包括政治體制改革。正如鄧小平先生所說(shuō)，沒有政治體制改革作保證，經(jīng)濟(jì)體制改革不可能成功。我們進(jìn)行的政治體制改革，從本質(zhì)上說(shuō)，是要把加強(qiáng)黨的領(lǐng)導(dǎo)、依法治國(guó)和人民當(dāng)家作主統(tǒng)一起來(lái)。當(dāng)前最重要的是做好這樣幾件事：第一、發(fā)展民主，保障人民的民主權(quán)利和人權(quán)。第二、完善法制，加強(qiáng)立法，依法行政，推進(jìn)司法改革。第三、依法治國(guó)，使我們的社會(huì)主義民主政治法制化、規(guī)范化和程序化。使這種制度不因領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人的改變而改變，不因領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人的看法、注意力的改變而改變。第四、加強(qiáng)監(jiān)督，特別是人民對(duì)政府的監(jiān)督。只有發(fā)揚(yáng)民主，加強(qiáng)監(jiān)督，政府才不敢懈怠，才不會(huì)人亡政息。我們是有13億人的大國(guó)，推進(jìn)政治體制改革必須有領(lǐng)導(dǎo)、有步驟地進(jìn)行。現(xiàn)在有許多誤解，比如宗教信仰問題。中國(guó)的憲法明確規(guī)定公民有宗教信仰自由，現(xiàn)在中國(guó)信教人數(shù)超過(guò)1億人，宗教活動(dòng)場(chǎng)所有10萬(wàn)多個(gè)。改革開放以來(lái)，大約每3天就新建或重建一處宗教活動(dòng)場(chǎng)所。在中南海不遠(yuǎn)的地方，就有宗教活動(dòng)場(chǎng)所，東有王府井的天主教堂，南有牛街的伊斯蘭清真寺，北有佛教的雍和宮，西有道教的白云觀。在中南海最近的地方，有歷史較長(zhǎng)的西什庫(kù)教堂。你可以到這些地方看看，有很多宗教信徒在那里從事宗教活動(dòng)。中國(guó)5000年的歷史在宗教發(fā)展方面有很大的包容性。中國(guó)5大宗教中只有道教是本土產(chǎn)生的，其他4種宗教都是外面?zhèn)鱽?lái)的，佛教是從印度傳來(lái)的，基督教和天主教是從西方傳來(lái)的，伊斯蘭教是從中東、西亞傳來(lái)的。
唐：今后中國(guó)在政治改革方面還會(huì)有什么步驟？比如說(shuō)現(xiàn)在的直接選舉，是否會(huì)從基層推進(jìn)到鄉(xiāng)鎮(zhèn)？
溫：目前，我們?cè)?8萬(wàn)個(gè)村一級(jí)實(shí)行村民自治和直接選舉。這是一個(gè)很大的創(chuàng)舉，也是對(duì)農(nóng)民的很大鍛煉。我們?cè)诳h、鄉(xiāng)和不設(shè)區(qū)的市實(shí)行的是普選人民代表。在省和設(shè)區(qū)的市以至中央，實(shí)行間接選舉。為什么這樣做？因?yàn)橹袊?guó)很大，人口很多，經(jīng)濟(jì)不發(fā)達(dá)，發(fā)展又不平衡，在現(xiàn)階段不可能在高層開展直接選舉，條件還不成熟，首先文化素質(zhì)就不夠。
唐：中國(guó)現(xiàn)在經(jīng)濟(jì)增長(zhǎng)勢(shì)頭很猛，比較富裕的地區(qū)和比較貧困的地區(qū)的差距會(huì)不會(huì)進(jìn)一步擴(kuò)大？
溫：我有這樣的擔(dān)心。前不久，美國(guó)商務(wù)部長(zhǎng)埃文斯訪華，先去了中國(guó)的西北。他給我?guī)?lái)了兩張中國(guó)西部農(nóng)村的照片。他了解到，中國(guó)的西北農(nóng)村還很落后。我對(duì)他講，你知道這一點(diǎn)，今天我們談?wù)摰膯栴}都可以解決了。我本人到過(guò)全國(guó) 1800多個(gè)縣，可以說(shuō)中國(guó)最窮困的地方我都到過(guò)。我深知中國(guó)的發(fā)展是不平衡的。你可以看到，東部地區(qū)、一些大城市，有很多高樓大廈。而在一些農(nóng)村，農(nóng)民還住在茅草房里，還在用牛耕種。中國(guó)還有 3000萬(wàn)人沒有解決溫飽問題。我們新一屆領(lǐng)導(dǎo)通過(guò)抗擊非典型肺炎這場(chǎng)疾病，得到一個(gè)重要的啟示，就是要注意協(xié)調(diào)發(fā)展。城鄉(xiāng)發(fā)展不平衡，經(jīng)濟(jì)和社會(huì)發(fā)展不平衡，就如同一個(gè)人一條腿長(zhǎng)一條腿短一樣，一定會(huì)跌跤的。一個(gè)國(guó)家一條腿長(zhǎng)一條腿短，也會(huì)跌跤的。但是我們必須在發(fā)展中解決這些問題，這就是說(shuō)東部地區(qū)繼續(xù)加快發(fā)展，有條件的地方率先基本實(shí)現(xiàn)現(xiàn)代化，可以提供更多的財(cái)力來(lái)支援中部和西部地區(qū)。與此同時(shí)，我們實(shí)施西部大開發(fā)戰(zhàn)略。最近，我們又提出振興東北等老工業(yè)基地戰(zhàn)略。這樣實(shí)行東西互動(dòng)，帶動(dòng)中部，使中國(guó)能夠逐步走向協(xié)調(diào)發(fā)展。但是，請(qǐng)記住，這是一個(gè)很長(zhǎng)的過(guò)程。
唐：是不是出于同樣考慮，你們決定修改憲法，保護(hù)私有財(cái)產(chǎn)，而且允許農(nóng)民轉(zhuǎn)讓土地使用權(quán)？
溫：我們確定了一條重要方針，就是堅(jiān)持以公有制為主體、多種所有制經(jīng)濟(jì)共同發(fā)展。我們把它概括為兩個(gè)毫不動(dòng)搖，就是毫不動(dòng)搖地發(fā)展公有制經(jīng)濟(jì)，毫不動(dòng)搖地發(fā)展個(gè)體私營(yíng)等非公有制經(jīng)濟(jì)，并將此作為基本經(jīng)濟(jì)制度載入了憲法。最近中國(guó)共產(chǎn)黨十六屆三中全會(huì)提出了產(chǎn)權(quán)制度的概念，明確要求要制定保護(hù)私有財(cái)產(chǎn)的法律、法規(guī)。這樣做完全是從中國(guó)實(shí)際出發(fā)，是實(shí)事求是的，有利于中國(guó)經(jīng)濟(jì)的發(fā)展，也有利于緩解就業(yè)的壓力，有利于增強(qiáng)社會(huì)公眾的創(chuàng)業(yè)和創(chuàng)新動(dòng)力，有利于共同富裕。中國(guó)目前個(gè)體私營(yíng)經(jīng)濟(jì)的從業(yè)人員達(dá)到 8000萬(wàn)。個(gè)體私營(yíng)經(jīng)濟(jì)在國(guó)民生產(chǎn)總值中的比重已達(dá)到 23％。在農(nóng)村我們實(shí)行的是家庭承包經(jīng)營(yíng)制度，允許農(nóng)民經(jīng)營(yíng)的土地依法有償轉(zhuǎn)讓，這是早已規(guī)定了的。
唐：金融體制方面是否需要做出調(diào)整，以使私營(yíng)企業(yè)得到更多的資金支持？如何解決大銀行的不良貸款？
溫：金融體制改革是我們經(jīng)濟(jì)體制改革的重頭戲。中國(guó)金融體系存在許多問題，最主要的就是銀行不良貸款比例較高，存在著很大的金融隱患。主要原因在于體制，必須加快對(duì)銀行體制的改革。我們的目標(biāo)是建立現(xiàn)代銀行制度，使銀行能夠成為自主經(jīng)營(yíng)、自負(fù)盈虧、真正的商業(yè)銀行。要實(shí)行銀行公司治理結(jié)構(gòu)的改造，實(shí)行股份制，具備條件的，允許上市。你提到一個(gè)很重要的問題，就是要加強(qiáng)金融機(jī)構(gòu)對(duì)中小企業(yè)、特別是民營(yíng)企業(yè)的支持。應(yīng)該說(shuō)，在這方面做的是不夠的。中小企業(yè)特別是民營(yíng)企業(yè)對(duì)于吸納勞動(dòng)力、解決就業(yè)問題可以發(fā)揮重要作用。我們要在加強(qiáng)監(jiān)管、防范風(fēng)險(xiǎn)的同時(shí)加大銀行對(duì)他們的扶持力度。
唐：1989年的時(shí)候你去了天安門廣場(chǎng)，見到了學(xué)生們，他們是*分子，還是愛國(guó)者？
溫：上個(gè)世紀(jì)八十年代末九十年代初，蘇聯(lián)、東歐發(fā)生劇變，在中國(guó)也發(fā)生了一場(chǎng)政治風(fēng)波。當(dāng)時(shí)，中國(guó)黨和政府及時(shí)果斷地采取措施，維護(hù)了社會(huì)的穩(wěn)定，并且下定決心繼續(xù)推進(jìn)改革開放。10多年來(lái)，中國(guó)發(fā)展的歷史證明，穩(wěn)定在中國(guó)是至關(guān)重要的。作為中國(guó)的總理，我最關(guān)心的是中國(guó)的穩(wěn)定與發(fā)展問題，因?yàn)橹袊?guó)有13 億人口。
唐：你剛才講到穩(wěn)定對(duì)中國(guó)是至關(guān)重要的。而布什總統(tǒng)在他最近兩次重要演講中，都談到自由的重要性，認(rèn)為自由是美國(guó)的核心價(jià)值觀。你認(rèn)為美中兩國(guó)的價(jià)值觀是不同，還是相似？對(duì)于未來(lái)中美關(guān)系的發(fā)展有什么影響？
溫：我想反問一句，在中國(guó)改革開放 25年、經(jīng)濟(jì)發(fā)生巨大變化的同時(shí)，難道你們沒有看到中國(guó)人民民主和自由發(fā)生的變化？比如擇業(yè)自由，獲取信息的自由，旅游的自由。25年以前，中國(guó)人到外國(guó)去，包括到我們自己的香港去，都是不可能的?，F(xiàn)在每年有上千萬(wàn)人次到世界各地去。還有我剛才講的宗教信仰自由問題。我想對(duì)先生講一句我的感受，作為中國(guó)的總理，我感覺擔(dān)子很重，工作難度很大，工作也做不完。13億，是一個(gè)很大的數(shù)字，如果你用乘法來(lái)算，一個(gè)很小的問題，乘以 13億，都會(huì)變成一個(gè)大問題。如果你用除法的話，一個(gè)很大的總量，除以 13億，都會(huì)變成一個(gè)小的數(shù)目。這是許多外國(guó)人不容易理解的。
我記得杰斐遜起草的《獨(dú)立宣言》有這樣一段話：人生而平等。由于人生而平等，他們都享有固有的不可剝奪的權(quán)利，其中有維護(hù)生命和自由的權(quán)利以及追求幸福的權(quán)利。我剛才講到，在中國(guó)，講人權(quán)首先是生存權(quán)和發(fā)展權(quán)。有些西方朋友感到不可理解。其實(shí)，讀讀杰斐遜 1776年起草的《獨(dú)立宣言》，他也是把生存權(quán)擺在了第一位。難道從 18世紀(jì)的《獨(dú)立宣言》，到 19世紀(jì)的南北戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)，到 20世紀(jì)的馬丁·路德·金事件，不也反映了美國(guó)民主和自由發(fā)展的過(guò)程嗎？恕我直言，美國(guó)有一些人對(duì)中國(guó)的了解不如我們對(duì)美國(guó)了解的多。
唐：從你的談話中，可以看出你對(duì)美國(guó)非常了解，你訪問過(guò)美國(guó)嗎？
溫：應(yīng)該說(shuō)我去過(guò)美國(guó)，但我沒有訪問過(guò)。我是訪問南美的時(shí)候，路經(jīng)美國(guó)，在紐約、洛杉磯都住過(guò)幾天。
唐：你一定讀了很多有關(guān)美國(guó)的書籍，給你留下深刻印象的是什么？
溫：我的愛好就是讀書。讀書伴隨著我的整個(gè)生活。談到讀美國(guó)的書，我可以跟你講一個(gè)故事，就是我見韓國(guó)總統(tǒng)盧武鉉時(shí)，他說(shuō)他的就職演說(shuō)引用了林肯 1861年的一段演說(shuō)。我回去翻我書架上有關(guān)林肯的書，發(fā)現(xiàn)在同樣的一段話下，我用鉛筆畫滿了紅線。林肯說(shuō)，記憶的神秘琴弦，從每一個(gè)戰(zhàn)場(chǎng)和每一個(gè)愛國(guó)者的墳?zāi)?，延伸到這些廣闊國(guó)土上的每一顆跳動(dòng)著的心和每一個(gè)家庭，它一定會(huì)被觸動(dòng)，它一旦被我們天性中善良的性靈所觸動(dòng)，必將奏出聯(lián)邦的大合唱。我想林肯處理南北戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)的態(tài)度影響了盧武鉉，他希望朝鮮半島南北和解。
唐：非常感謝你抽出這么多的時(shí)間接受我們的采訪，非常感謝！
溫：最后我還想說(shuō)幾句話。去年江澤民主席訪問貴國(guó)，今年胡錦濤主席兩次會(huì)晤布什總統(tǒng)，都明確表達(dá)了中方的態(tài)度，這就是繼續(xù)改善和發(fā)展同美國(guó)的關(guān)系。美國(guó)是世界上最發(fā)達(dá)的國(guó)家。中國(guó)是世界上人口最多的發(fā)展中國(guó)家。發(fā)展中美兩國(guó)的友好合作，不僅會(huì)造福兩國(guó)人民，而且有利于亞洲和世界的和平與穩(wěn)定。1972年，兩國(guó)有遠(yuǎn)見的領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人打開了中美關(guān)系的大門，結(jié)束了我們 23年的相互隔閡和不交往的歷史，開始了兩國(guó)和平相處的歷史。盡管風(fēng)風(fēng)雨雨，跌宕起伏，但是兩國(guó)關(guān)系還是前進(jìn)的。那么這 50多年的歷史告訴我們什么？起碼告訴我們?nèi)c(diǎn)，第一，和則兩利，斗則俱傷。第二，中美兩國(guó)有著合作的基礎(chǔ)和共同的利益。第三，中美友好合作不僅有利于亞太地區(qū)，而且有利于世界的和平與穩(wěn)定。